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The Overlord August 26 2011 04:23 AM

Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela, it seems like these two characters were set up to be Picard's Romulan counterpart and nemesis at different points of the show, but nothing really came of them. It seems like a bit of shame, but both of them had a pretty good build up, made some memorable appearances, but didn't appear enough to have any sort interesting rivalry with Picard, like say Sisko and Dukat had.

It seems like a bit of a shame and waste, I think one of the reasons why the Romulans come off as underdeveloped compared to other civilizations is there was never major Romulan reoccurring character that made a real impact, while every other civilization of importance had one: Vulcans, Klingons, Cardassians and the Ferengi, heck even 7 0f 9 as an ex Borg drone gave us some insight into the Borg that Romulans were lacking. If either Sela or Tomalak had been more developed and better used, that would given us more more insight into the Romulans beyond being evil and sneaky.

antiquityscion August 26 2011 05:09 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
I agree it would have been cool if Tomalak could have been in Nemesis. Would have added to that connection to the series. It would have even been a more meaningful gesture on the part of the Romulans, if Tomalak had joined forces with Picard to stand against Shinzon.

I also think it could have been cool to have Sela involved somehow in the creation of Shinzon, but the problem is you have Sela, a doppelganger of Tasha Yar, in a movie that already has Picard's and Data's doppelgangers. So that was never going to happen.

Sadly, as it was, Nemesis dropped the ball on making connections to the series as it was. They completely ignored the fact Data had another brother, Lore, and he wasn't even mentioned. They acted as if B4 was the first double of Data ever seen before.

doubleohfive August 26 2011 11:08 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Really, it speaks volumes about Katsulas that he took a character who only appeared four times (well, really, three. His cameo in All Good Things was just for laughs) and established such a sinister and memorable presence.

If I recall correctly also, the cast and writers weren't too crazy about the Romulans anyway, at least in terms of major recurring villains. They did in a pinch, but certainly not to the degree of development as, say, the Klingons or Vulcans.

doubleohfive August 26 2011 11:12 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Quote:

antiquityscion wrote: (Post 5185996)
I agree it would have been cool if Tomalak could have been in Nemesis. Would have added to that connection to the series. It would have even been a more meaningful gesture on the part of the Romulans, if Tomalak had joined forces with Picard to stand against Shinzon.

While I would have LOVED to see Katsulas on the big screen chewing scenery, this would have just been too fan-wanky, I think. Besides, it'd sacrifice Dina Meyer as the sexy Romulan commander.

Quote:

I also think it could have been cool to have Sela involved somehow in the creation of Shinzon, but the problem is you have Sela, a doppelganger of Tasha Yar, in a movie that already has Picard's and Data's doppelgangers. So that was never going to happen.
I agree it was a missed opportunity, particularly for a movie about reflection, doubles, and dopplegangers. Lore, Tom Riker, Shinzon, Sela... they should have all been part of it somehow.

Quote:

Sadly, as it was, Nemesis dropped the ball on making connections to the series as it was. They completely ignored the fact Data had another brother, Lore, and he wasn't even mentioned. They acted as if B4 was the first double of Data ever seen before.
Not just Lore. The three or four Soong-type prototypes that preceded Lore and Data, as well as the Juliana Tainer android.

Mr_Homn August 26 2011 11:22 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Tomalak. Best Romulan ever! (Comic book guy voice)

The Overlord August 26 2011 11:54 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Quote:

doubleohfive wrote: (Post 5187676)
Really, it speaks volumes about Katsulas that he took a character who only appeared four times (well, really, three. His cameo in All Good Things was just for laughs) and established such a sinister and memorable presence.

If I recall correctly also, the cast and writers weren't too crazy about the Romulans anyway, at least in terms of major recurring villains. They did in a pinch, but certainly not to the degree of development as, say, the Klingons or Vulcans.

The acting with Tomalak was good, but the focus was not there. There were hints of Tomalak being an interesting character, but it never really went anywhere, that was a shame.

antiquityscion August 27 2011 02:56 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Quote:

Really, it speaks volumes about Katsulas that he took a character who only appeared four times (well, really, three. His cameo in All Good Things was just for laughs) and established such a sinister and memorable presence.
Indeed! He was a great actor.

Quote:

While I would have LOVED to see Katsulas on the big screen chewing scenery, this would have just been too fan-wanky, I think. Besides, it'd sacrifice Dina Meyer as the sexy Romulan commander.
I disagree there. They could have had both. Or, just had Katsulas in a quick cameo, as in All Good things.

Quote:

I agree it was a missed opportunity, particularly for a movie about reflection, doubles, and dopplegangers. Lore, Tom Riker, Shinzon, Sela... they should have all been part of it somehow.
Again, i have to disagree. Now, THAT would have been too fan wanky.

Tom Riker deserved some resolution for sure, but that should have been done in DS9.

And Sela also kind of deserved her own story. In fact, I think she could have been Picard's "Nemesis," rather than some one-shot clone from nowhere. Unfortunately, I don't think Denise Crosby had the acting chops to be a big-screen nemesis to Picard.

But, and just my opinion, from a narrative standpoint, Sela had a huge ax to grind against Picard, and her being a "Khan-like" nemesis would have made sense.

And to those who would say Sela (as a character) has too much backstory-explaining to be a good villain (IE you have to have seen Yesterday's enterprise and Redemption to understand her origin), mind you Khan was a one shot villain from TOS whose existence was explained by a few lines, and most people who didn't see space seed got TWOK anyway.

But, I guess it is a moot point now. :(

doubleohfive August 27 2011 03:00 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Yeah, but the difference between the two *is* their respective backstories. Compare Khan:

"Kirk left us stranded on a planet and never bothered to check on us. Lo! Disaster struck and my wife died. Prepare to die, Kirk!"

vs. Sela:

Due to unexplained temporal disortions in the space-time continuum, my mother traveled back in time to fight in a battle she didn't belong in because some chick with a crazy hat told her it was a more honorable way to die. Except, she didn't die. She got caught and in exchange for hers and the other prisoners lives, she agreed to be some Romulan's consort and then had me. But the stupid bitch tried to escape with me and I ratted her out. They killed her. NOW I WILL KILL YOU PICARD!"

Khan's backstory and motivation was much more generalized and primal, and thus more easily accessible. He's out for revenge because he blames Kirk for the death of his wife.

What does Sela blame Picard for?

antiquityscion August 27 2011 03:08 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
I am not saying Sela was the best villain for Picard. And in no way is she even in the same league as Khan. You can't top Khan, IMHO. Edit: although I think Katsulas could have come pretty damn close!


JI am just saying, compared to Shinzon, and if they wanted to use a Romulan villain (besides Tomalak), she made a lot more sense to me.

Quote:

What does Sela blame Picard for?
Well, her defeat in Redemption.
Her defeat in Reunification.

It could have been explained she lost a lot of status and was disgraced, so she was banished to Remus, where she raised a Reman army for a coup. Picard is dispatched, and she is bent on destroying her long time enemy. No less believable than Shinzon.

...and, most importantly, and it is twisted motive to be sure, for her being born. Remember, it was already established she was ashamed of being half-human, and hated Picard for sending Yar back in time, where she became her mother.

Mr_Homn August 27 2011 04:33 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Q should have been in one of the TNG movies. He was crucial to the series, to leave him out of the movies completely seems messed up. Certainly whatever Q story they would have whipped up would have been superior to Insurrection or a more fitting end than Nemesis.

antiquityscion August 27 2011 04:59 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Q would have been cool, but they kinda butchered his character in Voyager.

Keith1701 August 27 2011 05:55 AM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Quote:

Mr_Homn wrote: (Post 5187717)
Tomalak. Best Romulan ever! (Comic book guy voice)

I must agree.......:drool:

indolover August 27 2011 01:52 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
In a way they were Picard's counterparts. they could have been like Picard COs of senior vessels/installations in the Romulan fleet, so just as Starfleet would send out the Enterprise to investigate something, the Romulan High Command would send out Tomalak.

Qew August 27 2011 04:39 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Yeah they did such a good job setting them up for it too. However in Star Trek Online Sela becomes the new leader and Emperor of Romulus.

Mr_Homn August 27 2011 08:31 PM

Re: Commander Tomalak and Commander Sela
 
Quote:

antiquityscion wrote: (Post 5188280)
Q would have been cool, but they kinda butchered his character in Voyager.

Oh yeah I forgot that show existed. Thanks a lot. :p


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