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Smitty January 5 2011 08:18 PM

TNG Series in HD?
 
Does anyone know if there is any plans to re-release the series in HD on blue-ray, sort of like they did with TOS? I know they added new special effects to the TOS but I do not think TNG needs that. But some of the episodes, especially from early seasons, are somewhat grainy and dirty in the current DVD release.

CoveTom January 5 2011 08:40 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film. And even though the live action was originally shot on film, and therefore is high def quality, it was all immediately transferred to video for editing, compositing with special effects, etc. So the completed shots only exist on video.

Therefore, nothing from TNG currently exists in a high def format. You'd not only have to re-do every single special effects shot, but you'd have to go back to the original negatives of all the live action footage and start from scratch.

Is it possible that this could be done? Sure, but it seems unlikely given the cost involved.

LitmusDragon January 5 2011 10:02 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
It's something that Paramount has shown interest in at various points. They originally were going to try an elaborate up-conversion of the video source but that proved futile (no doubt due to the rather poor quality of those tapes). It was mentioned at a convention recently that this is something they are still interested in. As Covetom said though, it would be difficult and all the FX shots would have to be redone. Eventually though, I think it's inevitable that it will happen.

ssosmcin January 5 2011 10:31 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

CoveTom wrote: (Post 4638140)
This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

Destructor January 6 2011 05:28 AM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Anyone else ever watch that show QI, when someone says something an the alarm goes off?

We need one of those for this thread.

LitmusDragon January 6 2011 05:47 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

ssosmcin wrote: (Post 4638502)
Quote:

CoveTom wrote: (Post 4638140)
This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that this isn't true, that the original film stock is still available, but I can't find that information at the moment. Certainly at least some of it is still available, as some original TNG 35mm footage was used in the Enterprise finale and it was definitely not sourced from video tape. This was covered in the original thread here.

I found this link which is the convention information I was thinking of. John Van Citters (who was speaking) confirms that they are actively pursuing ways to convert TNG to high definition but does not mention whether or not the film stock is available. He does however say that it would be "incredibly difficult" but that he "expects it will happen eventually".

RAMA January 6 2011 07:22 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

LitmusDragon wrote: (Post 4640397)
Quote:

ssosmcin wrote: (Post 4638502)
Quote:

CoveTom wrote: (Post 4638140)
This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that this isn't true, that the original film stock is still available, but I can't find that information at the moment. Certainly at least some of it is still available, as some original TNG 35mm footage was used in the Enterprise finale and it was definitely not sourced from video tape. This was covered in the original thread here.

I found this link which is the convention information I was thinking of. John Van Citters (who was speaking) confirms that they are actively pursuing ways to convert TNG to high definition but does not mention whether or not the film stock is available. He does however say that it would be "incredibly difficult" but that he "expects it will happen eventually".


I think this says it ALL:

Quote:

"It is being worked on and I expect it will happen, it is just a technical challenge." Following his talk, I confirmed with Van Citters that even though he is optimistic that the challenges will be met, as of now there is no specific plan or budget for the project within CBS. So this is still something that is a long-term project.

GalaxyX January 8 2011 08:26 AM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
I'm actually glad they need to redo the entire FX. TNG desperately needed more action scenes. I'm sick of the "enormous fight" scenes consisting of a static Enterprise firing one torpedo. And who can forget the 3-4 matte sets they keep on redressing and reusing! yeck!! They need to revamp these type of scenes.

Takeru January 8 2011 08:52 AM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

GalaxyX wrote: (Post 4644691)
I'm actually glad they need to redo the entire FX. TNG desperately needed more action scenes. I'm sick of the "enormous fight" scenes consisting of a static Enterprise firing one torpedo. And who can forget the 3-4 matte sets they keep on redressing and reusing! yeck!! They need to revamp these type of scenes.

I agree and I hope they stop that respecting the original effects bullshit. It annoyed me to no end that they didn't change more when they remastered TOS.
I don't want them to treat the original versions like crap, like George Lucas did, but if you remaster something remaster it for real and take advantage of the opportunity and today's technology. Don't just take the original effects and make them prettier most of the time.

One thing they really have to change is getting rid of ALL shots of the giant Bird of Prey. The BOP is a small ship and it looked ridiculous when they pretended it was almsost as big as the Enterprise.:rolleyes: I also want them to ditch the "Excelsior next to Enterprise" shot they used way too often, let's see Ambassadors, Nebulas and new ship classes.

Completely redo all fight scenes, I don't remember a single battle in TNG that didn't look lame, the Enterprise was always static when it fired it's weapons ... at least show it from another angle.

I also want them to extend the episodes. If they have to basically redo the entire post production process it shouldn't be a big deal to insert scenes that were cut for time or extend battle scenes. Who cares if the episode suddenly runs 4 minutes longer, it doesn't have to fit into a timeslot. And if they decide to air the episodes in syndication, they have to cut out footage anyway, so what's the difference.

Basically, what I don't want is a faithful recreation of the original episodes in HD. They can use multiple angles and seamless branching to include the original versions on the Blu-Rays, even if that means no HD for the space scenes.

BlobVanDam January 8 2011 09:29 AM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

Takeru wrote: (Post 4644730)
I also want them to extend the episodes. If they have to basically redo the entire post production process it shouldn't be a big deal to insert scenes that were cut for time or extend battle scenes. Who cares if the episode suddenly runs 4 minutes longer, it doesn't have to fit into a timeslot. And if they decide to air the episodes in syndication, they have to cut out footage anyway, so what's the difference.

Basically, what I don't want is a faithful recreation of the original episodes in HD. They can use multiple angles and seamless branching to include the original versions on the Blu-Rays, even if that means no HD for the space scenes.

The only problem with extending the episodes is that all of that CG costs money, and I doubt they'll have a monster budget for this. I'd rather than spend the money to make the existing shots look great, rather than spread themselves thin trying to add more. Although it would be nice of them to add a bit more where the original couldn't due to technology limitations. When I was watching TNG for the first time only a year or two ago, I would call out "GENERIC ESTABLISHING SHOT B! (or whatever)" every time I saw those same 3 shots used over and over.

It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film. It would suck if TOS was able to have a good high def transfer from film, but not TNG. I guess my lifelong dream of seeing Picard facepalm in HD won't come to pass :(

Takeru January 8 2011 01:36 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

SevenOfNein wrote: (Post 4644760)
It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film.

But they do have the original film, they just don't have complete episodes (or a single visual effect) on film.

Capt_Pickirk January 8 2011 02:04 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

Destructor wrote: (Post 4639562)
Anyone else ever watch that show QI, when someone says something an the alarm goes off?

We need one of those for this thread.

With Stephen Fry narrating the thread

BlobVanDam January 8 2011 02:19 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
Quote:

Takeru wrote: (Post 4644921)
Quote:

SevenOfNein wrote: (Post 4644760)
It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film.

But they do have the original film, they just don't have complete episodes (or a single visual effect) on film.

So do you know how much they do have (ignoring visual effects)? Is it bits and pieces, or a majority? I'd hate to see an episode with a mixture of both. They can run the current tapes through all of the fancy filters they want, but it will still stick out against scanned film footage.

Takeru January 8 2011 02:40 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
As I understand it they have all footage, including various unused takes. That's one of the problems, to get HD episodes they would have to check tons of film, pick the right takes and recreate the episodes from scratch, redoing every single effect, not just space scenes, but view screens, transporter effects and every friggin blip that was added in post-production.

Angel4576 January 8 2011 02:45 PM

Re: TNG Series in HD?
 
^^ Thing is though, there are loads of people who would no doubt do all that checking for free if they were given access to the material.

Let's just be thankful that they're taking the long-term approach rather than the quickfix upscaling route. The upscaled version of DS9's Trials & Tribble-ations looks dreadful, in fact worse than the SD version IMO.


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