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TV-Tastic December 22 2010 10:40 PM

TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
I did a little commentary on my blog regarding the moving of Fringe to Fridays and the BS campaign by FOX to convince viewers that they actually support the series.

Enjoy!

-The 'Tastic

'Fringe' Moves to Friday Nights: FOX Pledges Full Support. Don't Be Fooled. Fans Need To Read This.

Level 2 Diagnostic December 23 2010 12:42 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
I stopped reading when I saw you use Dollhouse as an example of FOX letting genre shows die. FOX gave that show way more chances than it deserved. No other broadcast network would have renewed it for a second season.

I get that you hate FOX because they canceled Firefly, but you don't seem to be aware that the people who made that decision aren't in charge anymore, and FOX is now a lot more willing to let genre shows build an audience. Sadly, they still get a big "F you" from blogs like this one.

If I were a FOX exec I'd say screw it and stop picking up genre shows, because people like you are determined to hate them no matter what they do.

TV-Tastic December 23 2010 01:17 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Quote:

Level 2 Diagnostic wrote: (Post 4611691)
I stopped reading when I saw you use Dollhouse as an example of FOX letting genre shows die. FOX gave that show way more chances than it deserved. No other broadcast network would have renewed it for a second season.

No need to be a negative Nancy.

Yeah somehow, I think you just skimmed. First, I didn't use Dollhouse as an example, I was quoting another blogger to make a point about the fraud of FOX. I think Dollhouse was absolutely awful.

In fact, here's what I actually posted about Dollhouse in the same blog post:

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To add more salt into that particular wound and prove the point about the total lack of vision at FOX, in May of 2009 those two shows had identical audience numbers, but FOX, in their infinite wisdom and foresight, decided to cancel Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles which had 11.4 million viewers during its first season before being dumped into Friday, was incredibly well-received by critics, had an established franchise brand-name and a built-in audience in favor of renewing the Joss Whedon mess called Dollhouse that had none of these attributes going for it. Once again, nice job, FOX.
So, if you had read a little further, you'd notice that I have no love for Dollhouse whatsoever. But actually, when you think about it, as awful as it was, they put it on Friday night to die to begin with because that's what they do with everything and IIRC Whedon was none too happy about that.

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I get that you hate FOX because they canceled Firefly,
I don't hate FOX because they canceled Firefly and in fact, I didn't watch Firefly in its first run so I didn't know any better. I hate FOX because it is run by monkeys.

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but you don't seem to be aware that the people who made that decision aren't in charge anymore,
Irrelevant... the mentality is exactly the same. They have a long and storied history of killing good shows.

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and FOX is now a lot more willing to let genre shows build an audience.
Examples, please.

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Sadly, they still get a big "F you" from blogs like this one.
They get a big F-You from me because they are a poorly run network... period. Although genre is the usual victim, this has far less to do with their abuse of genre and far more to do with their knee-jerk programming decisions over the the past twenty years and ineptitude in general.

Here's a great article from Topless Robot that shows that it's not just genre.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/08/...fore_their.php

..And add Lone Star and The Good Guys to that list as well, neither of which are genre shows.

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If I were a FOX exec I'd say screw it and stop picking up genre shows, because people like you are determined to hate them no matter what they do.
Oh, I would so love if they did that, seriously. Leave the quality programming to the other networks and we can all just live with American Idol and Hell's Kitchen 5 nights a week on FOX.

The problem FOX has is that they have a history of doing very little right. I used to be a big cheerleader for them up until recently and I had to simply come to terms with the reality that they are simply just a lousy network. I would like nothing more than to be a fan of FOX again but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Personally, I think FOX should stop trying to chase high shares and 10 million plus audiences and just start shooting for CW numbers, because that's really about where they are as far as stature is concerned.

Seriously, though, in the end, do you honestly think they are going to stand by Fringe?

-The 'Tastic

TV-Tastic December 23 2010 02:21 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Another thing, too. I'm not even particularly bothered by FOX's decision to move Fringe to Friday night. If the show isn't doing well enough for them in their mind, so be it, I don't really expect much from FOX to begin with anymore. The problem I have is their BS campaign with that dopey promo video. It's just insulting.

Liek I said, FOX has a lot to prove to me.

-The 'Tastic

bigdaddy December 23 2010 02:49 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
So you are really complaining about a promo?

Christmas is in nearly two days and you choose to waste your time and mine on this?

But it brings up the excellent Futurama quote "The new morons at B(F)ox brought us back!"

Borgminister December 23 2010 03:43 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Dopey? I thought it was quite clever, actually. Hm.

Canadave December 23 2010 03:47 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Fox has done some stupid things in the past, yes. But at the same time, they're much more willing to give genre shows a chance than any of the other major networks, so I can't fault them too much.

Level 2 Diagnostic December 23 2010 06:45 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Quote:

TV-Tastic wrote: (Post 4611764)
I don't hate FOX because they canceled Firefly

No, you just call Firefly "regrettably short lived" and you put a poster of the Firefly cast with the caption "Dear FOX you suck hard", but that doesn't mean you care that they canceled Firefly.

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Examples, please.
Examples of genre shows that FOX gave a chance? Ummm... Dollhouse, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Fringe, Human Target? I'm pretty sure none of these shows would have lasted more than 13 episodes on any other major network.

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They get a big F-You from me because they are a poorly run network... period.
They went from a joke "fourth network" in the 1980s to consistently commanding higher ad rates than any other broadcast network. They had the most watched program of the entire last decade. Despite what you think of their shows, FOX is not a "poorly run" network.


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Here's a great article from Topless Robot that shows that it's not just genre.
Come on, that article cites Arrested Development as a show that was canceled too soon... It was on for THREE SEASONS. Where did this attitude come from that networks need to keep low rated shows on the schedule indefinitely?

TV-Tastic December 23 2010 01:42 PM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Quote:

Level 2 Diagnostic wrote: (Post 4612254)
Quote:

TV-Tastic wrote: (Post 4611764)
I don't hate FOX because they canceled Firefly

No, you just call Firefly "regrettably short lived" and you put a poster of the Firefly cast with the caption "Dear FOX you suck hard", but that doesn't mean you care that they canceled Firefly.

Again, you are being incredibly selective with what you read. Did I say that I didn't care that FOX canceled Firefly? The answer is a resounding no. What I sad was:

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I don't hate FOX because they canceled Firefly and in fact, I didn't watch Firefly in its first run so I didn't know any better. I hate FOX because it is run by monkeys.
Firefly is just an example of the many horrible things that FOX has done for the last 20 years regarding quality programming and it's not just because it was canceled. It has to do with the history of that show and the network and it's inidicative of their incompetence.

As I've noted on the blog (and in my last post here) I've only come to the realization that I hate FOX recently and when I say recently, I mean within the last seven days. If the issue was Firefly don't you think I would have hated them a lot sooner... like seven years sooner?


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Examples, please.
Examples of genre shows that FOX gave a chance? Ummm... Dollhouse, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Fringe, Human Target? I'm pretty sure none of these shows would have lasted more than 13 episodes on any other major network.
So your standard is the same as FOX's: 13 episodes is by definition, "giving a series a chance." We'll have to disagree on that.

And again, my complaint with FOX isn't necessarily about genre shows but since that particular can of worms has been opened let's just take a look at Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

As a mid-season replacement, airing only nine episodes in 2008 it was the highest rated new show of the 2007 -2008 averaging 11.4 million viewers per week. So tell me how, if FOX is such a well-run network, they screwed that one up a mere four months later?

Again, more recently, just take a look at what they did to the Good Guys and what they did to Lone Star.

But another thing, as much as I hate Dollhouse, how is dumping that show on Friday nights out-of-the-gate giving that show a chance?

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They get a big F-You from me because they are a poorly run network... period.
They went from a joke "fourth network" in the 1980s to consistently commanding higher ad rates than any other broadcast network. They had the most watched program of the entire last decade.
I've addressed the issue of American Idol. Are you just looking at the pictures? I ask this because that seems to be all that you're commenting on.

Here's the second comment in the link you posted:

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Aquat1cF1sh wrote:
I wonder what Fox's average would be without Idol.

...which is the only question that needs to be asked. Also, that was Q1 and I imagine that Q2 is as equally impressive. What about Q3 and Q4?

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The only reason FOX has had any success is because they have had a handful of successful shows that they have MILKED TO DEATH.
At the top of that list is American Idol and I go into detail as to why the success of American Idol should mean the success for other scripted shows but with FOX, it never works out that way.

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Here’s the thing about that: a successful show should be able to give a network a lot of leeway with their programming and give a lot of other shows a chance to build an audience and become successful. What this means is that a show, for example, such as American Idol, can make enough money to basically support the growth of shows that are critically acclaimed however struggle in the ratings. This is not a new concept in either film or cinema.
I explain it in more detail as well but i'm not going to post the whole blog post. If you're interested, you know where it is.

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Despite what you think of their shows, FOX is not a "poorly run" network
From a standpoint of audiences who enjoy quality, scripted television, they are a terribly run network. Like I said, if they want to hang their hat on having the "number one show in the last decade" then I'm all for it. Just run two seasons of American Idol every year, Monday through Friday and throw in Hell's Kitchen and the various Gordon Ramsay spinoffs where he's yelling at people for burning the "f**king risotto" for good measure.

But if they aren't going to put any real, professional effort into the development, marketing and scheduling of scripted television, and building audiences for these shows then they need to stop wasting our time and give other networks (including cable networks... Lone Star would have been a perfect fit on F/X) a chance to pick up these shows.

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Here's a great article from Topless Robot that shows that it's not just genre.
Come on, that article cites Arrested Development as a show that was canceled too soon... It was on for THREE SEASONS. Where did this attitude come from that networks need to keep low rated shows on the schedule indefinitely?
So, let me get this straight: out of the twenty shows listed, the one you picked up on to dismiss the validity outright of the contentions of the Topless Robot piece was Arrested Development??? :rolleyes:

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't have listed Arrested Development either because I just never thought it was as good of a show as it was made out to be. That being said, Arrested Development is yet another example of poor scheduling decisions by FOX and the show was cut from 22 to 18 episodes in its second season and it was canceled a month into the third season. To add more insult to injury, the final four episodes were aired during a two hour block opposite the 2006 Winter Olympics opening ceremonies. Your take on these shows that were 'given a chance' is completety out of context with the histories associated with them. These failures don't happen in a bubble.

But thanks for the lively debate! It's fun! :techman:

-The 'Tastic

bigdaddy December 23 2010 02:09 PM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Frankly Fox sucks because of the move to Thursday, not the move to Friday. The show's ratings are horrible. It's my favorite show and the ratings just suck. However it should have never been moved away from House. Even if it were to move away from House Fox should have seen that it couldn't hold it self up to it's new timeslot and moved it last year to a spot because Friday, like Wednesday... when they show nothing!

Level 2 Diagnostic December 23 2010 08:35 PM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Quote:

TV-Tastic wrote: (Post 4612577)
...which is the only question that needs to be asked. Also, that was Q1 and I imagine that Q2 is as equally impressive. What about Q3 and Q4?

Q4 numbers aren't out yet, obviously, but here's Q3: "Fox commanded the highest unit cost ($211,732 per spot), followed by ABC ($125,940), CBS ($110,794) and NBC ($81,784)."

Your point about American Idol is moot because it's only on five months out of the year. Even when AI is not on, FOX does well against the other networks.

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So your standard is the same as FOX's: 13 episodes is by definition, "giving a series a chance."
Er... yes. They ordered a pilot, picked up the series, gave it a full season order, and then renewed it for a second season. If that's not "giving a series a chance" then what is?


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As a mid-season replacement, airing only nine episodes in 2008 it was the highest rated new show of the 2007 -2008 averaging 11.4 million viewers per week. So tell me how, if FOX is such a well-run network, they screwed that one up a mere four months later?
Maybe people just gave up on the show because they didn't like where it was going? Lots of genre shows start out with huge ratings and drop off dramatically. Given the ratings for V and FlashForward, why aren't you saying that ABC is just as poorly run?


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the success of American Idol should mean the success for other scripted shows but with FOX, it never works out that way.
I really wonder where you get your information, because Glee and House directly owe their success to having AI as a lead-in.

EnderAKH December 24 2010 02:32 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Quote:

Level 2 Diagnostic wrote: (Post 4613147)
Quote:

TV-Tastic wrote: (Post 4612577)
As a mid-season replacement, airing only nine episodes in 2008 it was the highest rated new show of the 2007 -2008 averaging 11.4 million viewers per week. So tell me how, if FOX is such a well-run network, they screwed that one up a mere four months later?

Maybe people just gave up on the show because they didn't like where it was going? Lots of genre shows start out with huge ratings and drop off dramatically. Given the ratings for V and FlashForward, why aren't you saying that ABC is just as poorly run?

Count me, for example, in this category. I limped through finishing season one, and found it uninteresting enough I couldn't be bothered with season two. Had absolutely nothing to do with Fox as a network.

And I don't have the article handy, but I read somewhere that Fox's graveyard of cancelled series isn't that much more or less than any other network.

stj December 24 2010 03:37 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
Hoping that some of Fringe's DVR/Hulu audience will tune in on less competitive Friday, when they don't on Thursday, is giving Fringe a chance. The Thursday ratings justify cancellation. And if anything Fox has will increase a Friday audience, and it can afford to move away from a high rating night, it's Fringe.

The remark above about moving it to Thursday is what hurt it is true. It had one of Fox's best lead ins, though, and wasn't doing huge business. It was time to see if they Fringe could take its audience elsewhere, and use the lead in to build another property. The audience didn't go to Thursday, hence Fringe's shift to a highly serialized format. (You didn't think that was an artistically motivated decision, right?) Now it has a fanatical following.

Jax December 24 2010 03:57 AM

Re: TV-Tastic's Commentary on the 'Fringe' move to Friday Night
 
That article has issues...

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FOX is an awful network and quite possibly the worst network ever
I am not FOX's biggest fan but NBC and The CW are much more poorly run networks.

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Sarah Conner had 11.4 million viewers during its first season before
The ratings sank losing more than 60% of the pilot's audience by the end of season 1. T:SCC before the friday move was getting just over 5 million in a much easier slot than Fringe had to endure since season 2.

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Sarah Conner was well-received by critics, had an established franchise brand-name
Critics were mixed on the show and the ratings wre poor for such a established franchise brand-name. It also claims Dollhouse was favoured by FOX over it, which was total B/S since T:SCC got the lead in slot and cost a lot more to make than Dollhouse.

FOX are idots though because Fringe 1st season ratings warranted it should of kept the Monday fall slot and only should of moved for 24's final season but then should of re-taken the slot this season. FRINGE had the potential to be MASSIVE on Monday Nights.


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