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-   -   Circumstantial Evidence?/Why did spock end up in alt. universe?[Merge] (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=120959)

GeneHunt May 11 2010 09:59 AM

Circumstantial Evidence?/Why did spock end up in alt. universe?[Merge]
 
So the Nerada goes through the blackhole and destroys the Kelvin - from that momment on we are seeing an alternate reality. When Spock travels back why does he end up in that reality? essentially he has shifted dimension aswell as time travel - shouldnt he of just emerged in the 23rd century of his own universe/timeline??

Genesis Does May 11 2010 11:48 AM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
This belongs in the other forum.

KobayashiMaru13 May 11 2010 11:56 AM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
No. Spock went in the black hole BEFORE the Nerada. if anything the Nerada should have come out somewhere different. but thanks to temporal mechanics, since they both went in within seconds/minutes of each other, they ended up in the same timeline--yet, Spock still came out 24 YEARS after the Nerada. that leads me to believe that once they entered the black hole, everything was up to quantum probability.

sbk1234 May 11 2010 06:50 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
It was an important plot complication.

Scout101 May 11 2010 08:06 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Yep, he fell through a plot hole. Almost wish they had just called it a remake/reboot, instead of tying it to the old continuity. Doing it this way requires Spock to forget the 50 other times he's been stuck in alternate universes/timelines, and all the ways he knows to repair them/get home.

Yes, it's a different timeline, rather than a changed timeline, so he doesn't HAVE to go home, but it smacks of something similar to suicide to not try to go home. If you say it doesn't matter because it's a different timeline, and exists seperately as another of many alternate universes, won't matter if he "repairs" it, as it'll continue to happen as another probability wave anyway, won't it?

All he had to do was go back to the point the Nerada appears in this universe and blow it up, and only change to this universe is a strange sensor reading on the Kelvin. Instead, he gives up on HIS universe and decides to stay and play in this alternate sandbox.

Yes, needed all of this from a RL standpoint, keep this universe and don't reset things, but including Prime Spock, but ignoring how many times in his life he's overcome basically this same problem, is silly.

Ronald Held May 11 2010 09:11 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
plot necessity. I believe they went into an alternate universe which they changed even further by their existance i n it.

Elvira May 11 2010 10:29 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Why wouldn't Spock at least try to return to the prime universe?

He has a (maybe still) wife, also perhaps children. Aside from the personal aspects he is the Federation ambassador to Romulas, with the massive destruction to the empire caused by the supernova, Spock will be needed more than ever. Spock has always been shown to be a very responsible person. It not like he wouldn't be able to come up with something. Just skip from one universe to another.

:)

startrekrcks May 11 2010 10:36 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
shouldn't this belong in the Trek XI forum

Dukhat May 11 2010 10:42 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 4069370)
Why wouldn't Spock at least try to return to the prime universe?

He has a (maybe still) wife, also perhaps children. Aside from the personal aspects he is the Federation ambassador to Romulas, with the massive destruction to the empire caused by the supernova, Spock will be needed more than ever. Spock has always been shown to be a very responsible person. It not like he wouldn't be able to come up with something. Just skip from one universe to another.

:)

1. Either he can't, based on whatever law of quantum mechanics is in play here (i.e. he can go forward in the future, but it will be the future of this new alternate universe), so he is forced to stay in this one instead;

2. He has the ability to return to the prime universe somehow but has elected of his own free will to stay in this one instead; or

3. He has the ability to return to the prime universe somehow and has every intention of doing so as soon as he helps the Vulcans of this new universe settle on a new world.


The movie heavily implies that the first option is what happened.

Broccoli May 11 2010 10:43 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
The Wizard did it.

Therin of Andor May 11 2010 10:43 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 4069370)
Why wouldn't Spock at least try to return to the prime universe?

How? Nero took his ship and the red matter and marooned him on a planet. Was he supposed to convince Pike to let him have the Enterprise, and take it singlehandedly through a black hole?

Even if he slingshots forward in time, he'll be in the future of a timeline where Kirk's father died on the day of his birth.

Quote:

startrekrcks wrote: (Post 4069393)
shouldn't this belong in the Trek XI forum

Nero took our ship and the red matter and marooned us in the wrong thread.

F. King Daniel May 11 2010 10:48 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Nero went back in time to 2233. By changing things he created an alternate universe. Surely Spock, who fell into the black hole a few seconds after Nero, should have been altered and be the 2387 product of Nero's new timeline rather than TOS Trek?

I guess you could say he was, because of his proximity to the black hole, unaffected in the same way the 1701-E was unaffected in First Contact just after the Borg went though their vortex-thing.

And T'Girl, what use is Spock in the Prime universe now? Romulus is gone, and his unification mission has failed. He's more use leading the surviving Vulcans in the altered timeline.

And to everyone who says "Go back and fix the damage done" - Nerada was the most powerful war machine in the universe. They barely defeated it once. Messing around could end with Nero destroying everything.

Also: They don't have the right. This Kirk's entire life is the result of Nero's tampering. It would be effectively killing him (and countless others) to undo it.

Mr Cool Dude May 11 2010 10:50 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
When Spock went back in time he created a time branch point for the viewers. Just like everybody else in Star Trek did when they went back in time. There is no such thing as a 'Prime Universe'. There were many different universes created throughout all of the Star Trek time travel themed episodes and movies.

Yuckleberry Finn May 12 2010 01:37 AM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 4069422)
Nero went back in time to 2233. By changing things he created an alternate universe. Surely Spock, who fell into the black hole a few seconds after Nero, should have been altered and be the 2387 product of Nero's new timeline rather than TOS Trek?

More evidence they went to an alternate universe :bolian:

Elvira May 12 2010 12:33 PM

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 4069408)
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 4069370)
Why wouldn't Spock at least try to return to the prime universe?

Even if he slingshots forward in time, he'll be in the future of a timeline where Kirk's father died on the day of his birth.

Okay, Spock slingshots backwards (in a ship other that the Mega-prise) to a point before Nero arrives when the two universes are still one. Then Spock slingshots forward into the future of the prime universe (his universe) to a point immediately after he left the future, Where the universe branches, he moves into the correct branch.

Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 4069422)
T'Girl, what use is Spock in the Prime universe now? Romulus is gone, and his unification mission has failed.

And the entire Romulan Empire is in disarray. Ambassador Spock would have been the primary interface between the Federation and the (former) Empire. Spock was the one who put himself out there to save Romulus while the government of the Empire stood around with their thumbs up their asses. If his unification efforts were well known to the people of the Empire he would be a trusted face in their media. Spock wanted to unite the Vulcaniod PEOPLE. Because of his beliefs in unification, Spock could have felt that the destruction of Romulus increased the likelihood of unification in his prime universe, not decreased it. Unification in the prime universe was Spock's life's work.

Would he casually abandon it?


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