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-   -   Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=117911)

VOODOOXI March 30 2010 07:27 PM

Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Let me preface this by saying that I have pretty close to state of the art system and I completely understand that dvd's will not come anywhere near the quality Blu-ray will offer.

That said TNG looks terrible even with my Blu-ray player upconverting them. Other older (same era as TNG) dvd's I have look significantly better.

Is it just me or does TNG not look very good in the dvd format?

Also, I think I read somewhere that TNG would be very diffuclut and rather expensive to convert to Blu-ray. Does anyone know anything about this?

Joeman March 30 2010 07:40 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
After I purchased the show from Amazon, I posted a review there about how grainy and washed out the shows looked. I soon learned that what I had inadvertently ordered was that "international" release. I thought that was the problem, so I sort of amended my review, assuming that it was due to the poor unofficial copies. I haven't seen any shows on the regular release DVD's.

Since then though I've noticed that even on TV the shows look grainy and sometimes a little washed out. Probably just me though. But the others shows seem to look fine to me on TV.

Hermiod March 30 2010 07:53 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

VOODOOXI wrote: (Post 3959036)

Also, I think I read somewhere that TNG would be very diffuclut and rather expensive to convert to Blu-ray. Does anyone know anything about this?

The answer to that is yes, it would be difficult.

The simple explanation - TNG, DS9 and Voyager were shot on film but transferred to video for editing. To create a HD master, every episode would have to be re-edited from the original negatives. Enterprise, on the other hand, could easily be released on Blu-Ray as it was created with HD in mind from day one.

Bear in mind that movies, let alone TV shows, from the 80's don't have the best reputation storing their original negatives properly. So, I wouldn't hold your breath for a Blu-Ray release.

Holdfast March 30 2010 09:25 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

VOODOOXI wrote: (Post 3959036)
Let me preface this by saying that I have pretty close to state of the art system and I completely understand that dvd's will not come anywhere near the quality Blu-ray will offer.

That said TNG looks terrible even with my Blu-ray player upconverting them. Other older (same era as TNG) dvd's I have look significantly better.

Is it just me or does TNG not look very good in the dvd format?

I just have regular DVDs and no upconversion/HDTV. For me, the first season is a little "blurry" (some episodes more than others), but the later seasons get progressively better. I suspect it's just that the original mastercopy has those problems, so I doubt much can actually be done. For me, apart from one or two first season eps where it's very noticeable, the video quality, doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the series. But I suspect this may be a YMMV sort of topic.

VOODOOXI March 30 2010 09:53 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Thanks for the response guys... I just can't believe how poor TNG looks compared to other dvd's of the same era.

Even TOS (the Blu-ray's are amazing)which was shot in the 1960's looks better than TNG. I assume that's because TOS was shot on film where TNG was shot on film and transferred to video as Hermiod explained.

When the Blu-ray's come out I will surely upgrade.

Marten March 30 2010 10:02 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
I've never noticed, but it could be true.

Snaploud March 30 2010 10:42 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
TOS was shot and edited on film. It has also benefited from a lot more DVD prep work.

J. Allen March 30 2010 10:56 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Screencaps from a TNG and a TOS DVD.
The file sizes are large, but that's because I want to show them uncompressed, and exactly as they appear.
They have not been modified in any way.

Here's a screencap of "Encounter at Farpoint" from my TNG DVD.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h18m26s119.png


Here's a screencap of "Balance of Terror" from my TOS DVD:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h20m15s218.png

CaptainStoner March 30 2010 11:21 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

Joeman wrote: (Post 3959071)
After I purchased the show from Amazon, I posted a review there about how grainy and washed out the shows looked. I soon learned that what I had inadvertently ordered was that "international" release.

They sell that bootleg on Amazon? It's hard to feel sorry for Paramount when they're not even trying to protect their interests.
But yes it's true, I watched TNG on Netflix, and some of the shots in S1 were pretty murky. Later seasons benefit from better lighting, I think.

RandyS March 31 2010 04:15 AM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

Axiom wrote: (Post 3959575)
Screencaps from a TNG and a TOS DVD.
The file sizes are large, but that's because I want to show them uncompressed, and exactly as they appear.
They have not been modified in any way.

Here's a screencap of "Encounter at Farpoint" from my TNG DVD.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h18m26s119.png


Here's a screencap of "Balance of Terror" from my TOS DVD:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h20m15s218.png

Yep, my DVD's look exactly like this. In other words, they are clear and much better than my old VHS versions. No problems here.

J. Allen March 31 2010 04:27 AM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

RandyS wrote: (Post 3960383)
Quote:

Axiom wrote: (Post 3959575)
Screencaps from a TNG and a TOS DVD.
The file sizes are large, but that's because I want to show them uncompressed, and exactly as they appear.
They have not been modified in any way.

Here's a screencap of "Encounter at Farpoint" from my TNG DVD.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h18m26s119.png


Here's a screencap of "Balance of Terror" from my TOS DVD:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h20m15s218.png

Yep, my DVD's look exactly like this. In other words, they are clear and much better than my old VHS versions. No problems here.

True, although TOS does look a bit better than TNG. If you didn't know any better, you'd think the second image was made more recently than the first, at least going by quality. Now, the TNG DVDs do have issues. I don't know how they transferred them, but on occasion they do have quality issues, for example where occasional green stripes will zip up the side, or you can see the tape edge at the top of the screen. I think they transferred all of them from the VHS masters, actually.

Start Wreck March 31 2010 03:57 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

VOODOOXI wrote: (Post 3959036)
Is it just me or does TNG not look very good in the dvd format?

It's not just you, TNG looks terrible, particularly on modern HDTVs where the imperfections are upscaled. Viewing on a normal CRT television is not so bad, mind you.

The main reasons have been covered, but it's also worth pointing out that TNG seasons 1 and 2 were edited on analogue videotape, whereas they switched to digital video tape thereafter (and continued until the end of Voyager). Thus TNG season 1 and 2 look far worse than 3 to 7, so it takes some adjusting to if you've not seen them for a while!

To be fair, a lot of the shots that are just plain footage are okay (see: above screenshots), but any effects shot where there's been some multipass photography / compositing can look especially blurry. Space shots, in particular, seem to suffer from weird blue glowing edges of the screen.


I would love to see this series remastered but I won't be holding my breath for it to happen.

For some idea of what it would look like restored, wait for the inevitable release of season 4 of Enterprise on Blu-ray -- These Are The Voyages in particular. There's some old stock footage cleaned up and rescanned for that episode, plus all the spangly new CGI. Terrible episode, but technically interesting, and about as good as the Ent-D likely to look for a long while.

Alrik March 31 2010 10:12 PM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
There is something else about TNG picture quality that I find kind of odd when it comes to reruns on TV. A local station started airing TNG on week nights a couple of months ago. Shortly after, we upgraded 2 of our 3 DirectTV receivers to HD (the 3rd still serves good CRT TV, so no point). Out in my garage I have a 19'' CRT hooked to a digital converter that also picks up this local station. What I have noticed is on the HD's TNG looks really washed out but on the SD CRT's it looks much brighter and clearer.

data_lover April 1 2010 07:36 AM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
i bought the entire series as a set and the first couple seasons are definitely worse than later ones. I thought it was just me - glad it's not! :)

Hober Mallow April 2 2010 03:08 AM

Re: Is it me or does TNG look really bad on dvd?
 
Quote:

Start Wreck wrote: (Post 3961226)
For some idea of what it would look like restored, wait for the inevitable release of season 4 of Enterprise on Blu-ray -- These Are The Voyages in particular. There's some old stock footage cleaned up and rescanned for that episode, plus all the spangly new CGI. Terrible episode, but technically interesting, and about as good as the Ent-D likely to look for a long while.

Here's a site that shows some comparison shots between TNG and "These Are The Voyages."


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