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-   -   How many died in Disaster? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=117510)

Utopianvista March 25 2010 04:19 PM

How many died in Disaster?
 
The sensors were only picking up life signs in the Saucer section. However they couldn't confirm those readings were true.

We do know that Main Engineering was completely empty. So we can assume everyone died there. Heck everyone on that deck probably died considering how empty Main Engineering was. Logic would state that those that survived would go to Engineering to organize and figure out what is going on.

However, the thing that has ALWAYS bothered me about the episode is the sudden end. Ship saved, Keiko has baby and then BANG next scene shows the ship at warp and everyone is all happy. There is absolutely no follow up on the damage, repair efforts or death toll.

Crewman47 March 25 2010 05:37 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Maybe I'm assuming or it was implied, but wouldn't Engineering have been evacuated and after the disaster all the Engineers were simply cut off from that section? It has happened on Trek numerous times where crewman are cut off from certain areas of the ship in emergency's.

Utopianvista March 25 2010 06:01 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
I don't see why they would've been evacuated from that area. The first quantum filament hit and a few seconds later the 2nd one hit that killed Lt Monroe. If anything the Engineers would've been trapped in Engineering, or on that deck, with all the emergency bulkheads going into place. Getting to Engineering would be a priority for any survivors, hence why Riker and Data went there.

FWIW the containment door wasn't lowered either.

Finn March 25 2010 07:26 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
^The Engineer bowels of the nuEnterprise looked empty when nuScotty and nuKirk beamed in. It may be normal for the main engineering to be relatively empty. If they were killed, there would be evidence of it all around them.

Timo March 26 2010 07:38 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
That'd depend on the definition of "Main Engineering". One could argue that in TNG and TOS, we see only the control room of the vast engineering complex, whereas ST:TMP is the first to show the actual, usually uncrewed mechanisms inside. Only this time, they are crewed, because the recently refitted ship is undergoing testing - but it's not a shirtsleeves environment, as the supposed radsuits testify. In ST2, the facilities are crewed again, because it's a training cruise.

And STXI shows the comparable innards of a TOS era starship in relatively standard conditions, proving that people are normally not to be found in there. All the engineers stay in that small control room we saw in TOS (or in its analogue for this movie).

On the issue of who or how many died, one might argue that virtually nobody did. The starship is a pretty safe place to live in, and all the filaments did was shut down systems that provided access. There were probably dozens of layers of backups for things like life support - and procedures that called for people to stay put and wait for rescue.

Exploding consoles are always a hazard, so perhaps a dozen dead. OTOH, whenever somebody dies of an exploding console on the bridge, we don't learn that there would be corresponding deaths on the lower decks. Perhaps the bridge consoles are unique in this respect?

The lack of people on Main Engineering is a bit unusual, though. Whenever we go there, at least some people are messing around - unless our heroes specifically appropriate the space for something silly (such as converting it to a gun range in "Mind's Eye") and supposedly order everybody else out. So perhaps the filaments did hit Main Engineering relatively severely, killing many (and disposing of their bodies somehow).

Timo Saloniemi

Utopianvista March 26 2010 05:39 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Quote:

Finn wrote: (Post 3946513)
^The Engineer bowels of the nuEnterprise looked empty when nuScotty and nuKirk beamed in. It may be normal for the main engineering to be relatively empty. If they were killed, there would be evidence of it all around them.

Let us not talk about the abomination of Abrams Trek in a TNG forum.

BolianAuthor March 27 2010 11:01 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
What I'd like to know, is what ever became of the officer in charge of radishes???

Tom Riley March 29 2010 02:09 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 3948095)
On the issue of who or how many died, one might argue that virtually nobody did. The starship is a pretty safe place to live in, and all the filaments did was shut down systems that provided access. There were probably dozens of layers of backups for things like life support - and procedures that called for people to stay put and wait for rescue.

Exploding consoles are always a hazard, so perhaps a dozen dead. OTOH, whenever somebody dies of an exploding console on the bridge, we don't learn that there would be corresponding deaths on the lower decks. Perhaps the bridge consoles are unique in this respect?

The lack of people on Main Engineering is a bit unusual, though. Whenever we go there, at least some people are messing around - unless our heroes specifically appropriate the space for something silly (such as converting it to a gun range in "Mind's Eye") and supposedly order everybody else out. So perhaps the filaments did hit Main Engineering relatively severely, killing many (and disposing of their bodies somehow).

Timo Saloniemi

Well, Riker did say to prepare Ten Forward to receive wounded and casualties or something like that. It was heavily implied that the ship was severely damaged and lots of people were dead and injured. People complain about reset buttons between episodes of Voyager, but what about that HUGE reset button during that TNG episode there? That's what really bothers me, I hate the way that episode ends. I really like the episode up until that point. But that ending... :rolleyes:

Nardpuncher March 29 2010 02:11 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Quote:

Utopianvista wrote: (Post 3948851)
Quote:

Finn wrote: (Post 3946513)
^The Engineer bowels of the nuEnterprise looked empty when nuScotty and nuKirk beamed in. It may be normal for the main engineering to be relatively empty. If they were killed, there would be evidence of it all around them.

Let us not talk about the abomination of Abrams Trek in a TNG forum.

:wtf:

Anyway,
What's up with that turbolift falling so many decks?
No real gravity on a ship.

Tom Riley March 29 2010 03:23 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
^ Well, it was already traveling down, right? That could explain the initial "fall"... aside from that though... Perhaps the artificial gravity plating beneath the decks(if that's how it works) is at the bottom of the turbolift shaft? Or the artificial gravity is just applied to the whole ship cause it's easier that way? Your guess is as good as mine. :lol:

BolianAuthor March 29 2010 08:39 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Quote:

What's up with that turbolift falling so many decks?
No real gravity on a ship.
Well, the artificial gravity system was never offline, so there WAS gravity on the ship, but aye, not in space.

Nardpuncher March 29 2010 09:19 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
Quote:

BolianAdmiral wrote: (Post 3955179)
Quote:

What's up with that turbolift falling so many decks?
No real gravity on a ship.
Well, the artificial gravity system was never offline, so there WAS gravity on the ship, but aye, not in space.

I'm not sure how true this is ,but I think the gravity is generated from things in the decks, so a turbolift with no power would likely hover between decks.

BolianAuthor March 29 2010 09:29 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
^

Guess I'll have to dust off my TNG technical manual... :)

Timo March 29 2010 09:25 PM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
It seems that gravity can be created deck by deck, rather than by having a single attractor at the bottom of the ship. At least there shouldn't be any tech reason to prevent this. Whether this is how it's "really" done aboard starships is a different question. But Archer's Enterprise clearly had a gravity system that could fail on specific rooms on specific decks ("Unexpected"), and TAS and ENT also showed deck-by-deck gravity control in place aboard TOS era Constitution class ships. And the E-D had prominent "variable gravity area!" warning signs on the shuttlebay walls...

Now, if the artificial gravity is deck-by-deck, would there be any in the vertical turboshafts (or the horizontal ones, for that matter)? Probably not by design. But it's easy to postulate that artificial gravity fields cannot be terminated knife-sharp at the edges, but will always "bleed" a bit over the edge of the deck. A vertical turboshaft would then have "bleed gravity" from the all surrounding decks, and the lift would fall.

Since lifts do fall on the E-D in "Disaster" and on DS9 in "Crossfire", this seems more or less confirmed...

Timo Saloniemi

Tom Riley March 30 2010 04:46 AM

Re: How many died in Disaster?
 
^ Works for me! :)


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