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-   -   Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=115837)

EJA March 3 2010 10:16 PM

Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Spock Prime doubtless knows of a number of ways to travel back in time and prevent Nero from embarking on his rampage resulting in the destruction of Vulcan (e.g. slingshot around a star, Guardian of Forever, etc). So why doesn't he do this?:confused:

Nerys Myk March 3 2010 10:20 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
A Doctor told him its a fixed point in time.

OneBuckFilms March 3 2010 10:34 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

EJA wrote: (Post 3885911)
Spock Prime doubtless knows of a number of ways to travel back in time and prevent Nero from embarking on his rampage resulting in the destruction of Vulcan (e.g. slingshot around a star, Guardian of Forever, etc). So why doesn't he do this?:confused:

Okay, I'll go over this at it has been gone over a thousand times before:

- Spock's only ship was the Jellyfish he was in when it was caught in the Black Hole in 2387.
- He and the Ship were INSTANTLY capture upon his arrival, 25 years after the Narada went through, at which point, he lost any means for time travel.
- He was dumped on Delta Vega and watched Vulcan destroyed, then encountered Kirk.
- After he and Kirk meet and exchange information, it was clear that time was not actually linear, but an Alternate Reality, and thus could not be repaired.

Dukhat March 3 2010 10:56 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

EJA wrote: (Post 3885911)
Spock Prime doubtless knows of a number of ways to travel back in time and prevent Nero from embarking on his rampage resulting in the destruction of Vulcan (e.g. slingshot around a star, Guardian of Forever, etc). So why doesn't he do this?:confused:

Because even if he did, all he'd be doing was creating another timeline where Vulcan wasn't destroyed (and that's if he's even successful...who's to say the Vulcans would even believe him?). But Vulcan will still remain destroyed in the Abramsverse, and Romulus will still be destroyed in the prime universe. Since he's stuck in this timeline and he can't go back to his original timeline, what's the point? He might as well make himself useful where he is, which is exactly what he did.

M'Sharak March 3 2010 11:05 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

EJA wrote: (Post 3885911)
Spock Prime doubtless knows of a number of ways to travel back in time and prevent Nero from embarking on his rampage resulting in the destruction of Vulcan (e.g. slingshot around a star, Guardian of Forever, etc). So why doesn't he do this?:confused:

In real-world terms: because Harlan Ellison owns the rights to the Guardian and will want Big Money for its use--refer to the lawsuit he filed (13 March, 2009) against CBS/Paramount and the WGA (settled in his favor 23 October, 2009) which has been discussed at great length elsewhere on this board--and also because Roberto Orci has said that there will be no convenient and easily- and precisely-controllable slingshot time-travel.

Besides, hasn't this topic been done enough times already? You've been here in this forum and you've participated in those threads; is there anything you seriously expect to come of asking the same question one more time which hasn't already been beaten to a bloody pulp more than a dozen times over the last nine months? What's to be gained from Yet Another 'Why Doesn't Spock Travel Back in Time and Just Press that Big Red Reset Button' Thread?

Shazam! March 3 2010 11:14 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Spock Prime's relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe. I doubt he really gives much of a shit about these alternate universe versions.

Nerys Myk March 3 2010 11:32 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Yeah they don't even look the same! ;)

thumbtack March 4 2010 01:19 AM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 3886030)
relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe

I'm sure they miss old Spock at least a little bit. Granted, he's slowed down some, but his human half always ensured he was the life of the party (by Vulcan standards).

EJA March 4 2010 11:01 AM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 3886030)
Spock Prime's relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe.

That's if the prime universe is still around, which I still find highly debatable.

Pauln6 March 4 2010 12:31 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

EJA wrote: (Post 3887141)
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 3886030)
Spock Prime's relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe.

That's if the prime universe is still around, which I still find highly debatable.

The Prime Universe? If we've settled on the many worlds theory the 'Prime Universe' vanished after Yesterday's Enterprise... and a different universe has been created almost every time they've done a 'reset' time travel story. It might be arguable that Time's Arrow doesn't create a new universe because the time loop appears to be completely closed but I'm not sure that applies often. Taking into account the Butterfly Effect, who can say which universe we're in any more? :confused:

iguana_tonante March 4 2010 01:06 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

Nerys Myk wrote: (Post 3885918)
A Doctor told him its a fixed point in time.

Was it Doctor Spock? :p

The Wormhole March 4 2010 04:28 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
^^I am also wondering Who this Doctor is.;)

Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 3886030)
Spock Prime's relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe.

Actually, his family we know of (mother, father, brother) are dead in the Prime Universe.

Nerys Myk March 4 2010 08:38 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 3887274)
Quote:

Nerys Myk wrote: (Post 3885918)
A Doctor told him its a fixed point in time.

Was it Doctor Spock? :p

No, an odd chap with a British accent,(which is odd for an alien). He also informed Spock that Earth girls are easy.

lawman March 4 2010 11:35 PM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

OneBuckFilms wrote: (Post 3885947)
Okay, I'll go over this at it has been gone over a thousand times before:

- Spock's only ship was the Jellyfish he was in when it was caught in the Black Hole in 2387.
- He and the Ship were INSTANTLY capture upon his arrival, 25 years after the Narada went through, at which point, he lost any means for time travel.
- He was dumped on Delta Vega and watched Vulcan destroyed, then encountered Kirk.
- After he and Kirk meet and exchange information, it was clear that time was not actually linear, but an Alternate Reality, and thus could not be repaired.

Sorry, that doesn't really add up. That explains why he couldn't act to prevent what we see in the film, but not why he doesn't try to undo it. Logically, as soon as he meets Kirk and realizes what's going on, he should be looking for a way to go back 25 years and prevent the actions by Nero that sent the timeline off onto the tangent in which he finds himself. It's the course he's always followed in the past under similar circumstances.

Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 3885995)
Because even if he did, all he'd be doing was creating another timeline where Vulcan wasn't destroyed...

That's only if you buy completely into O&K's concept of how time travel works... which Spock wouldn't, given all available evidence of how he's dealt with time disruptions in the past. Otherwise, you're just begging the question of why he's ever labored to undo a time-change. As it stands, if he can see a way to undo the destruction of his home planet and save several billion people (not to mention restore a better childhood for his closest friend), you'd think he'd spare no effort to achieve it, rather than just accepting the new timeline as a fait accompli.

OneBuckFilms March 5 2010 12:12 AM

Re: Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?
 
Quote:

lawman wrote: (Post 3888991)
Quote:

OneBuckFilms wrote: (Post 3885947)
Okay, I'll go over this at it has been gone over a thousand times before:

- Spock's only ship was the Jellyfish he was in when it was caught in the Black Hole in 2387.
- He and the Ship were INSTANTLY capture upon his arrival, 25 years after the Narada went through, at which point, he lost any means for time travel.
- He was dumped on Delta Vega and watched Vulcan destroyed, then encountered Kirk.
- After he and Kirk meet and exchange information, it was clear that time was not actually linear, but an Alternate Reality, and thus could not be repaired.

Sorry, that doesn't really add up. That explains why he couldn't act to prevent what we see in the film, but not why he doesn't try to undo it. Logically, as soon as he meets Kirk and realizes what's going on, he should be looking for a way to go back 25 years and prevent the actions by Nero that sent the timeline off onto the tangent in which he finds himself. It's the course he's always followed in the past under similar circumstances.

Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 3885995)
Because even if he did, all he'd be doing was creating another timeline where Vulcan wasn't destroyed...

That's only if you buy completely into O&K's concept of how time travel works... which Spock wouldn't, given all available evidence of how he's dealt with time disruptions in the past. Otherwise, you're just begging the question of why he's ever labored to undo a time-change. As it stands, if he can see a way to undo the destruction of his home planet and save several billion people (not to mention restore a better childhood for his closest friend), you'd think he'd spare no effort to achieve it, rather than just accepting the new timeline as a fait accompli.

Since Spock knows of Kirk's altered past, and since he cannot travel back in time (stuck on Delta Vega), it would be obvious to him that things cannot be changed.

If there was a change that could be corrected, he would have corrected it.

Yes, I AM assuming the Alternate Reality explanation, since it is:

a) The writers' intent;
b) Explained as far as possible with dialog on the Bridge before Kirk was ejected;
c) Confirmed by Kirk ans Spock remembering very different events.

The fact that Spock would have done anything to save Vulcan if he could, and that it exists in the future he came from, tells me that he knows he cannot save it.


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