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-   -   Was Picard wrong in I,Borg? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=114440)

indolover February 12 2010 03:02 AM

Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
I think Picard should have gone ahead with the plan to destroy the Collective.

It wasn't just the Federation at stake, but the entire galaxy. I think making Picard very ethical was interesting writing, but I think Picard's moral nature got in the way here.

Another thing is that the whole reasoning why it was a wrong idea came from Beverly, and I think her characterisation was often weak, since she always used to judge things from Earth/human morality. She could never be objective in her analyses of situations.

Mysterion February 12 2010 03:14 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Yes. And Nechayev was correct. IMO, the blood of everyone killed by the Borg after that incident is (at least in part) on Picard's hands.

Mr. Laser Beam February 12 2010 03:19 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
There's no indication that Picard's original plan would have even worked. The Borg could have recognized that something was wrong and destroyed Hugh's cube before the 'virus' got a chance to spread.

What they ended up doing was superior, IMHO. Hugh's individuality couldn't be sensed by the Borg - until it was too late. And it has the added benefit of not being genocide.

SchwEnt February 12 2010 03:22 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
As Picard later said, "The moral thing to do was not the *right* thing to do."
And how!

As for Beverly, she didn't seem to be speaking so much in character as just essentially offering an opposing anti-genocide opinion.
After all, in BOBW she was devising a plan to use destructive nanites against the Borg, which could have decimated the collective as much as the invasive program strategy.

Mr. Laser Beam February 12 2010 03:24 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Quote:

SchwEnt wrote: (Post 3830145)
"The moral thing to do was not the *right* thing to do."

I disagree with that statement, on general principles.

Anwar February 12 2010 03:28 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Yes, because their plan wouldn't have worked and may have made things WORSE if anything. Seriously, in all the millenia that the Borg have existed that couldn't be the first time someone thought of a virus to use on them.

The Borg haven't launched a REAL attack on the Federation because they KNOW it's not a real threat to them. If the Feds used Hugh as a carrier, the virus not only wouldn't have worked but it would've alerted the Borg to the Feds' plan. This may have made them up the Feds to a real threat, provoking a REAL invasion. An invasion they'd never survive.

So yes, Picard was in the right.

indolover February 12 2010 03:42 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
The Borg don't care about threats as such. If they see a species they can assimilate, then they'll go after it.

I think for this reason, Picard should have gone ahead with the plan. The Borg, as he said, he declared war on the Federation's way of life, and there was never any hope of negotiating a peace.

Admiral Shran February 12 2010 04:48 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Yes, for once I agreed with Nechayev. Picard's job was to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens. It doesn't matter if it would eventually fail, he still should have tried.

As for Hugh's individuality being a more powerful weapon against the Borg. Yeah, that worked out real well. And are you going to tell me that everybody who had been assimilated up to that point had not possessed individuality? The whole concept of the Borg is that they conquer individuality easily.

Mr. Laser Beam February 12 2010 04:56 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Quote:

Admiral Shran wrote: (Post 3830306)
And are you going to tell me that everybody who had been assimilated up to that point had not possessed individuality? The whole concept of the Borg is that they conquer individuality easily.

Only when they assimilate people. In that case the Borg wipe out the individuality in the process. If an already existing drone becomes an individual, the Borg can't cope with that as easily.

Trekker4747 February 12 2010 05:01 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
There is never justification for genocide.

Picard did the right thing.

SchwEnt February 12 2010 05:27 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Hold on there ^^^

I get your point, but in ST fictional context...
For argument's sake, say the Enterprise had the invasive virus weapon ready to unleash at the last moment of BOBW, with the Earth on the verge of assimilation.

It would literally be...use the invasive program, wipe out the Borg genocidally -OR- the Earth is assimilated, followed by the rest of the UFP.

Riker should have declined, it is wrong to commit genocide.
Enterprise stands aside as the Borg cube begins assimilation.

Is that what you're claiming? THAT would have been the correct course of action?
(All fictional, I know)

Admiral Shran February 12 2010 06:59 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 3830327)
Quote:

Admiral Shran wrote: (Post 3830306)
And are you going to tell me that everybody who had been assimilated up to that point had not possessed individuality? The whole concept of the Borg is that they conquer individuality easily.

Only when they assimilate people. In that case the Borg wipe out the individuality in the process. If an already existing drone becomes an individual, the Borg can't cope with that as easily.

But they re-intergrated him into the Collective. How is that any different than assimilation?

Quote:

Trekker4747 wrote: (Post 3830340)
There is never justification for genocide.

Picard did the right thing.

It wouldn't have been genocide. The Borg are not a race. They're a group of automatons under the control of the Hive Mind.

I'll grant that it would be more morally preferable to disconnect every single drone from the Collective. However, even if every single resource of the Federation was directed at this goal, I doubt they would ever be able to achieve it.

In the name of self-defense, and self-perservation (not to mention the defense of countless alien races who would be assimilated in the future), I think Picard should have used the invasive program.

RobertScorpio February 12 2010 07:54 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Quote:

Mysterion wrote: (Post 3830130)
Yes. And Nechayev was correct. IMO, the blood of everyone killed by the Borg after that incident is (at least in part) on Picard's hands.

Agreed...

And someone just said we didn't really know if it would have worked or not anyway...so? What if it had? You are right; the blood of everyone who died due to the borg COULD INDEED..be rested at picard's feet.

Rob

Vanyel February 12 2010 08:09 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
Would the program have really worked?

The Borg must know pi, and they most likely stopped calculating it at some point.

Anwar February 12 2010 11:59 AM

Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?
 
It wouldn't have, and frankly that should've been covered in the episode itself. But I suppose they wanted it more simplified.


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