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T'Girl February 3 2010 02:28 AM

DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Did the Federation council formally declare war upon the Dominion? Or is it part of Star Fleet's standing rules of engagement to begin, prosecute and end major wars on their own?

At some point did the ambassadors/delegates/representatives from all the member worlds meet in full session with the President (and Prime Minister?) in attendance. Was there a impassioned speech by the President, followed by a debate and a vote to declare that a state of war existed between the United Federation of Planets and the Dominion?

Or is a formal declaration of war this charming old custom from Earth's past that is no longer observed? There doesn't seem to have been any way for the Federation to send a notification of such a declaration to the Founders.

What do you think?

:angel:

Mr. Laser Beam February 3 2010 02:33 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 3806291)
Did the Federation council formally declare war upon the Dominion?

Actually it was the reverse. The Dominion declared war against the Federation. They did this because Starfleet had begun mining the entrance to the wormhole (which was in turn a response to Dominion incursions into the Alpha Quadrant - specifically, Cardassian territory).

Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 3806291)
At some point did the ambassadors/delegates/representatives from all the member worlds meet in full session with the President (and Prime Minister?) in attendance.

The Federation has only a president, not a Prime Minister. The state of United Earth, OTOH, has both (it's a parliamentary republic - President as head of state, PM as head of government).

Quote:

Was there a impassioned speech by the President, followed by a debate and a vote to declare that a state of war existed between the United Federation of Planets and the Dominion?
I doubt it. As I said, the Dominion was the side who declared war.

Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 3806291)
There doesn't seem to have been any way for the Federation to send a notification of such a declaration to the Founders.

Yes, there would have been: Weyoun.

Myasishchev February 3 2010 03:58 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

I doubt it. As I said, the Dominion was the side who declared war.
As I understand it, a legal state of war doesn't exist, in this country, until declared by Congress--Germany declared war on us, but the Congress passed a bill of war on them (and Italy, and Romania, and so forth). Of course, there's no reason to believe that the Federation constitution even acknowledges legal states of war. It's not really necessary--you can't fight wars easily without needing them one bit.

I don't remember if the Dominion actually formally declared war on the Feds or anyone else.

DonIago February 3 2010 04:14 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Non-canonically I believe the Federation did declare war on the Dominion. Canonically I don't believe it was ever specified.

Navaros February 3 2010 06:50 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 3806302)
Actually it was the reverse. The Dominion declared war against the Federation.

I would argue that the Feds declared war implicitly by mining the wormhole, which was in itself an act of war.

But as for the OP's question, no, the Feds did not formally declare war. They like to do and endorse nefarious things yet without taking upfront responsiblity for them. Conducting war without declaring war is one of those things. The genocide disease is another, etc.

RyuRoots February 3 2010 06:54 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Navaros wrote: (Post 3808078)
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 3806302)
Actually it was the reverse. The Dominion declared war against the Federation.

I would argue that the Feds declared war implicitly by mining the wormhole, which was in itself an act of war.

But as for the OP's question, no, the Feds did not formally declare war. They like to do and endorse nefarious things yet without taking upfront responsiblity for them. Conducting war without declaring war is one of those things. The genocide disease is another, etc.

Because we always see the internal machinations of Federation government, and that disease certainly wasn't Section 31's work instead of the UFP. Nope.

Apogeal Alpha01 February 3 2010 07:26 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Mining the Wormhole was an act of self-preservation, not war. Excursions for trade into the Gamma Quadrant should have been punishable by self-annihilation? I don't think so.

Marie1 February 3 2010 09:03 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
^ No, but wandering in there and taking planets and starting colonies on them wherever wouldn't be looked upon favourably by anyone, esp. as hostile as we in the Dominion are.

Mr. Laser Beam February 3 2010 11:02 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Marie1 wrote: (Post 3808544)
^ No, but wandering in there and taking planets and starting colonies on them wherever wouldn't be looked upon favourably by anyone, esp. as hostile as we in the Dominion are.

If the Dominion had wanted the Federation to stop, they should have said so.

Conversely, the Dominion pouring troops into Cardassian space *was* inherently dangerous to the Federation, who had every right to stop it.

Or, by your own logic: Why should the Dominion be allowed to enter the Alpha Quadrant with impunity, but the Federation not be allowed into the GQ?

Jono February 4 2010 04:37 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Marie1 wrote: (Post 3808544)
^ No, but wandering in there and taking planets and starting colonies on them wherever wouldn't be looked upon favourably by anyone, esp. as hostile as we in the Dominion are.

The Bajorans started a colony in the GQ, in space that was more than likely not held by the Dominion. As far as I recall the Feds didn't have any colonies in the GQ.

StarryEyed February 4 2010 05:31 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Sisko mentioned the Romulans officially declaring war on the Dominion in ITPML so it seems they practice that formality. I don't believe anything was mentioned in regards to any other powers formally declaring war.

Admiral Shran February 4 2010 07:19 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Navaros wrote: (Post 3808078)
I would argue that the Feds declared war implicitly by mining the wormhole, which was in itself an act of war.

The Bajoran government and the Federation had every right to place mines in their terrority. If they had placed mines in Cardassian space, or in Dominion space in the Gamma Quadrant, that would have been an act of war.

This was simply an act of internal defense. All they were doing was telling the Dominion that they couldn't pass through Bajoran space and they set up a means to make that possible. In effect, they were fortifying their borders, which every state has the right to do.

Nick086 February 4 2010 07:54 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
How vast is Dominion space? You don't see any Borg present in the Gamma Quadrant. Does the Dominion control entire Gamma Quadrant? The Dominion were very hyper sensitive to any outsider entering their space. So I guesss any motive friendly or not is an act of war. The ferengi couldn't even make any serious profitable trading or selling in Quadrant.

Marie1 February 4 2010 09:54 PM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 3808869)
Quote:

Marie1 wrote: (Post 3808544)
^ No, but wandering in there and taking planets and starting colonies on them wherever wouldn't be looked upon favourably by anyone, esp. as hostile as we in the Dominion are.

If the Dominion had wanted the Federation to stop, they should have said so.

Conversely, the Dominion pouring troops into Cardassian space *was* inherently dangerous to the Federation, who had every right to stop it.

Or, by your own logic: Why should the Dominion be allowed to enter the Alpha Quadrant with impunity, but the Federation not be allowed into the GQ?

We were gonna invade the AQ anyway!

Quote:

Jono wrote: (Post 3809627)
Quote:

Marie1 wrote: (Post 3808544)
^ No, but wandering in there and taking planets and starting colonies on them wherever wouldn't be looked upon favourably by anyone, esp. as hostile as we in the Dominion are.

The Bajorans started a colony in the GQ, in space that was more than likely not held by the Dominion. As far as I recall the Feds didn't have any colonies in the GQ.

But the Feds were flying around in the GQ, and looking over planets for mining etc. And even if it wasn't "in" the space, between Fed and Rom. space there's a neutral zone...

The Cutest of Borg February 5 2010 02:56 AM

Re: DOMINION DECLARATION
 
The Feds were within their rights to mine the wormhole, especially with the blessing of the Bajoran liason officer. On the other hand, history condemns the Japanese Navy's attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. The Federation was equally guilty of a savage act of war when they launched their preemptive attack on the Torros III shipyards. The Feds started the Dominion War, though you could argue that it would have happened sooner or later.


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