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CorporalClegg January 16 2010 03:55 AM

Saavik & David
 
I just finished watching TWOK (for the first time in years, I confess), and something I'd never noticed that before was, during the ensemble shot at the end, David and Saavik are standing together somewhat segregated from the rest of the group. Their arms are dangling together like those of teenagers who just got caught holding hands. So I was wondering if it was ever in the plans for the two of them to hook up.

It would have created an interesting scenario. I know Harvey kind of over ruled Nicky on all things concerning the whole katra bit and I wonder if this was just another wrench he threw in there for good measure.

Since Nimoy's future was still largely uncertain, and at the time, he seemed pretty sure he'd never come back, by pairing those particular two the resulting offspring would be, not only a Human/Vulcan hybrid, but a Kirk/Vulcan hybrid. And if you add the whole Katra business you'd have a kid that's essentially one part Kirk, one part Spock--an interesting new spin.

I then got to thinking that perhaps something like this was GR's idea--someone to base a new series around. You have to figure he was at least thinking about a new series at the time and I always though of John Lucky as a poor man's Kirk and Spock mismatch.

Just something to think about...

Timewalker January 16 2010 09:26 AM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Saavik and David were more intimate in the novelized versions of the movies. Whether that was a part that was written but not filmed, filmed but cut, or Vonda McIntyre's invention, I don't know.

What would Spock's katra have to do with a potential Saavik/David child? It was McCoy who had Spock's katra!

Therin of Andor January 16 2010 09:33 AM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 3758226)
So I was wondering if it was ever in the plans for the two of them to hook up.

Most definitely.

Think back to the plans for "ST: Phase II". Nimoy refused to participate (hence the creation of Xon) and Shatner had indicated he might do only 13 episodes, then step down for whoever was cast as the Decker character, maybe making guest returns as Admiral Kirk.

After TMP, Nimoy again played his "not sure I need to return" card, and Meyer and Bennett coerced him back with the chance to play Spock's demise. Meanwhile, a young Vulcan was reconceived (from Lt Xon to a male Dr Savik, to a female Lt Saavik). David was originally to be the son of Dr Janet Wallace ("The Deadly Years"), but this may have inferred that Kirk once played around with a married woman - remember Dr Wallace was married in TOS) - and David became David Marcus.

Several takes of scenes of ST II were filmed with Saavik and Kirk being romantically attracted (see the elevator scene in the ABC-TV edition), and others were filmed with Saavik and David swapping romantic glances (see the ShoWest presentation trailer). No one knew what would happen after ST II. Spock was gone and Nimoy had said several times he was done with the character. Had they returned to original plans, of "ST: Phase II" (scripts already written), or a series of telemovies, these two new characters would have become Young Kirk and Young Spock substitutes, but ones who could be romantically involved (like Decker/Ilia and Riker/Troi) over a long story arc. Nimoy returning as Spock in ST III changed many of these tentative ideas.

Have you ever seen the official tie-in playing cards for ST II? Several have shots of Saavik and David posing as if they were lovers. The ST II novelization has several scenes (not ever in the script) added by Vonda McIntyre, which suggested a building romance.

Quote:

I then got to thinking that perhaps something like this was GR's idea--someone to base a new series around.
GR was totally out of the loop for ST II. But Bennett did have access to the work that had been done prepping for "ST: Phase II". And he knew that there were plans for Decker/Ilia and Xon the Vulcan to carry the new show if Shatner walked and Nimoy remained uninvolved.

Quote:

Timewalker wrote: (Post 3758608)
Saavik and David were more intimate in the novelized versions of the movies. Whether that was a part that was written but not filmed, filmed but cut, or Vonda McIntyre's invention, I don't know.

McIntyre's invention. But she'd no doubt been told that Meyer had experimented in some takes to have them stealing and sharing admiring looks.

Pauln6 January 16 2010 01:04 PM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 3758614)
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 3758226)
So I was wondering if it was ever in the plans for the two of them to hook up.

Most definitely.

Think back to the plans for "ST: Phase II". Nimoy refused to participate (hence the creation of Xon) and Shatner had indicated he might do only 13 episodes, then step down for whoever was cast as the Decker character, maybe making guest returns as Admiral Kirk.

After TMP, Nimoy again played his "not sure I need to return" card, and Meyer and Bennett coerced him back with the chance to play Spock's demise. Meanwhile, a young Vulcan was reconceived (from Lt Xon to a male Dr Savik, to a female Lt Saavik). David was originally to be the son of Dr Janet Wallace ("The Deadly Years"), but this may have inferred that Kirk once played around with a married woman - remember Dr Wallace was married in TOS) - and David became David Marcus.

Several takes of scenes of ST II were filmed with Saavik and Kirk being romantically attracted (see the elevator scene in the ABC-TV edition), and others were filmed with Saavik and David swapping romantic glances (see the ShoWest presentation trailer). No one knew what would happen after ST II. Spock was gone and Nimoy had said several times he was done with the character. Had they returned to original plans, of "ST: Phase II" (scripts already written), or a series of telemovies, these two new characters would have become Young Kirk and Young Spock substitutes, but ones who could be romantically involved (like Decker/Ilia and Riker/Troi) over a long story arc. Nimoy returning as Spock in ST III changed many of these tentative ideas.

Have you ever seen the official tie-in playing cards for ST II? Several have shots of Saavik and David posing as if they were lovers. The ST II novelization has several scenes (not ever in the script) added by Vonda McIntyre, which suggested a building romance.

Quote:

I then got to thinking that perhaps something like this was GR's idea--someone to base a new series around.
GR was totally out of the loop for ST II. But Bennett did have access to the work that had been done prepping for "ST: Phase II". And he knew that there were plans for Decker/Ilia and Xon the Vulcan to carry the new show if Shatner walked and Nimoy remained uninvolved.

Quote:

Timewalker wrote: (Post 3758608)
Saavik and David were more intimate in the novelized versions of the movies. Whether that was a part that was written but not filmed, filmed but cut, or Vonda McIntyre's invention, I don't know.

McIntyre's invention. But she'd no doubt been told that Meyer had experimented in some takes to have them stealing and sharing admiring looks.

Really interesting analysis. In some ways it's a shame that they didn't bring in younger substitutes to gradually elevate them to take on the torch of TOS. As the franchise progressed it became harder and harder to find a believable excuse for all these high-ranking old codgers to remain together.

Saavik was a potential gold mine of story and character ideas. It's a real shame that she was squandered.

CorporalClegg January 16 2010 04:25 PM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Quote:

Timewalker wrote: (Post 3758608)
What would Spock's katra have to do with a potential Saavik/David child? It was McCoy who had Spock's katra!

I am assuming, of course, that in this other would-be third film there would be no Spock and Bones still couldn't keep it without mental damage or whatever, they'd still need to find an alternative vessel. Insert silly sci-fi plot device here.

Allyn Gibson January 16 2010 06:32 PM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 3758940)
Quote:

Timewalker wrote: (Post 3758608)
What would Spock's katra have to do with a potential Saavik/David child? It was McCoy who had Spock's katra!

I am assuming, of course, that in this other would-be third film there would be no Spock and Bones still couldn't keep it without mental damage or whatever, they'd still need to find an alternative vessel. Insert silly sci-fi plot device here.

Not necessarily. Remember that when Star Trek II was filmed, no one knew what "Remember" meant. We look at it now, from the perspective of Star Trek III and beyond, and we say, "Oh, it's so obvious. Spock gave McCoy his katra," but, at the time, it may have just been Spock's way of saying, "Remember me" (which is what Meyer intended).

sbk1234 January 16 2010 07:16 PM

Re: Saavik & David
 
^^^As I understand it, the "Remember" bit wasn't in the original version of the film. After test audiences saw the film without it and felt the film was too much of a downer at the end, they added that bit to tantalize the audience.

Therin of Andor January 17 2010 12:24 AM

Re: Saavik & David
 
Quote:

Allyn Gibson wrote: (Post 3759176)
Remember that when Star Trek II was filmed, no one knew what "Remember" meant. We look at it now, from the perspective of Star Trek III and beyond...

One hot rumour between ST II and III was that it would be revealed that Saavik would somehow be possessed by Spock's essence, helping her to become a suitable science officer replacement for Spock. And the script treatment, "Return to Genesis", had a vampiric-looking Spock image appearing in mirrors and other reflective surfaces.

Colonel Midnight January 17 2010 02:05 PM

Re: Saavik & David
 
^ Vampiric Spock?? That's... interesting. Never heard that before, I must admit!

Pointed ears AND teeth -- now that's a combination right out of Nosferatu. Err, maybe Remans instead. :p

In all seriousness, thanks Therin! Interesting tidbit (and why I love this place).

Cheers,
-CM-


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