The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   The Next Generation (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=105807)

PTRACER October 13 2009 08:31 PM

Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
I don't know whether it was the quality of Suzie Plakson's acting, but K'Ehleyr felt like a well-established character despite only appearing in two episodes and when she was killed in Reunion, I thought the TNG writers had made a mistake.

I felt she was a very strong character and could have made a return from time to time in future plot lines, even as a minor character in the odd episode - definitely not as a regular though.

I suppose the only problem that could have arisen from not killing her off was that the ending of Reunion would have to be completely different (any suggestions?).

rahullak October 13 2009 08:38 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
She could get kidnapped by the Romulans....

DGCatAniSiri October 14 2009 12:15 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
It was the right decision for the story they were telling - had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras. Had Duras not been killed, Gowron would not have become Chancellor. Had Gowron not become Chancellor, the Klingon Civil War would not have begun.

Likewise, without K'Ehleyr's death, Alexander would not have been left in Worf's care. I'll grant that there are still stories that could have been told with K'Ehleyr alive, but it served Worf's character better for her to die - her death allowed him the opportunity to both reclaim his family honor and become a father, both of which were more difficult to show with her still alive.

DevilEyes October 14 2009 03:45 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

DGCatAniSiri wrote: (Post 3485498)
It was the right decision for the story they were telling - had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras. Had Duras not been killed, Gowron would not have become Chancellor. Had Gowron not become Chancellor, the Klingon Civil War would not have begun.

Likewise, without K'Ehleyr's death, Alexander would not have been left in Worf's care. I'll grant that there are still stories that could have been told with K'Ehleyr alive, but it served Worf's character better for her to die - her death allowed him the opportunity to both reclaim his family honor and become a father, both of which were more difficult to show with her still alive.

Yes, they needed her to die for the story.

Besides, it seemed to be an unwritten rule that TNG couldn't have a regular in an actual relationship. :rolleyes:

But it was a shame since I liked her and found her more interesting than Worf, or the majority of TNG regulars.

DGCatAniSiri October 14 2009 05:23 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Yeah, I know, the TNG characters needed a bit of a kick in the pants on a good day, and it would have been fun to see her stick around and deliver one to a character who needed it (to me, that was part of the fun of the Worf/Jadzia relationship on DS9).

Still, the story they wanted to tell needed her death to motivate it. While it could have been told a bit better in some aspects, I can't see how she couldn't have been left alive and still give Worf the same desire - when it was just his honor at stake, he didn't have a problem with leaving his family honor tarnished, knowing it was for a good cause, keeping the Empire together. But with K'mpec dead, Duras close to getting his job, AND now a son, who he has to take care of with K'Ehleyr's death, he wants his son to be able to be accepted in Klingon society. If K'Ehleyr had lived, she could give him a life that didn't tie back to the Klingon beliefs, but Worf doesn't think like that - you are a Klingon, you must be raised Klingon. And the Klingon beliefs said that with the House of Mogh dishonored, Alexander too would be dishonored and unable to survive in Klingon society. Worf accepted that, but he wanted Alexander to have the option to join Klingon society.

Doug Otte October 14 2009 03:50 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
K'Ehleyr used to be a favorite character of mine. In fact, we named a parakeet after her. It was nothing about the species; just an honest homage.

Anyway, I agree w/ everyone. While it would have been nice to keep her, her death was shocking and made Reunion truly outstanding when we see Worf's reaction. And, as DGCat wrote so well, it became fertile ground for so many more good Klingon scripts.

BTW, I met Plakson at a convention many years ago. As with many people, she was even more stunning in person than on the screen.

Doug

Edit: Oops, I forgot one of the main points I wanted to make. I guess I've changed a lot since TNG was first aired. Although I originally loved the 2 K'Ehleyr episodes, when I tried to watch "The Emissary" again a year or so ago, I found Plakson's acting to be annoying.

K'Ehleyr October 21 2009 06:42 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

DevilEyes wrote: (Post 3486231)
Quote:

DGCatAniSiri wrote: (Post 3485498)
It was the right decision for the story they were telling - had K'Ehleyr not been killed, Worf would not have killed Duras. Had Duras not been killed, Gowron would not have become Chancellor. Had Gowron not become Chancellor, the Klingon Civil War would not have begun.

Likewise, without K'Ehleyr's death, Alexander would not have been left in Worf's care. I'll grant that there are still stories that could have been told with K'Ehleyr alive, but it served Worf's character better for her to die - her death allowed him the opportunity to both reclaim his family honor and become a father, both of which were more difficult to show with her still alive.

Yes, they needed her to die for the story.

Besides, it seemed to be an unwritten rule that TNG couldn't have a regular in an actual relationship. :rolleyes:

But it was a shame since I liked her and found her more interesting than Worf, or the majority of TNG regulars.

Hmm what can I say? I thought she was a great character ~ strong, independant and humourous. She would have made a great addition to the crew.

Quote:

DGCatAniSiri wrote: (Post 3486459)
Yeah, I know, the TNG characters needed a bit of a kick in the pants on a good day, and it would have been fun to see her stick around and deliver one to a character who needed it (to me, that was part of the fun of the Worf/Jadzia relationship on DS9).

Still, the story they wanted to tell needed her death to motivate it. While it could have been told a bit better in some aspects, I can't see how she couldn't have been left alive and still give Worf the same desire - when it was just his honor at stake, he didn't have a problem with leaving his family honor tarnished, knowing it was for a good cause, keeping the Empire together. But with K'mpec dead, Duras close to getting his job, AND now a son, who he has to take care of with K'Ehleyr's death, he wants his son to be able to be accepted in Klingon society. If K'Ehleyr had lived, she could give him a life that didn't tie back to the Klingon beliefs, but Worf doesn't think like that - you are a Klingon, you must be raised Klingon. And the Klingon beliefs said that with the House of Mogh dishonored, Alexander too would be dishonored and unable to survive in Klingon society. Worf accepted that, but he wanted Alexander to have the option to join Klingon society.

I'm sure they could have created a story-line that still included K'Ehleyr. Worf and she did not have to stay together, and the arguements they would have had about Alexander's upbringing would have been epic. It could have been a brilliant 'on going star-crossed lovers story'!

Forbin October 23 2009 12:59 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

DevilEyes wrote: (Post 3486231)

Besides, it seemed to be an unwritten rule that TNG couldn't have a regular in an actual relationship. :rolleyes:

My pet peeve exactly. It's like the show was written by people who'd never had a serious relationship in their lives and didn't know how to have one. (Which probably describes most people in the entertainment industry).

K'Ehleyr was a fantastic character and Suzi is a charismatic actress who is a delight to watch. They missed the boat by not having bothe K'Ehleyr and Dr. Selar as regular recurring characters.

FormerLurker October 24 2009 12:59 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
It's Michael Dorn's fault. As he has said at conventions many times, when asked he told the writer(Ron Moore?) that Worf would only be willing to kill Duras if Duras had killed K'Ehleyr. He said he regretted that that would end the Worf/K'Ehleyr relationship, but that's the way it had to be.

GhostFaceSaint October 24 2009 05:48 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
It does make sense however for Worf to be only willing to kill the crepe after his mate was killed. It was sad but it worked really well and made Worf out to be sympathetic and a bad ass too!

Forbin October 24 2009 03:40 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

GhostFaceSaint wrote: (Post 3515717)
It does make sense however for Worf to be only willing to kill the crepe after his mate was killed.

What would Worf possibley have against French pancakes?

K'Ehleyr October 25 2009 12:11 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

Forbin wrote: (Post 3516298)
Quote:

GhostFaceSaint wrote: (Post 3515717)
It does make sense however for Worf to be only willing to kill the crepe after his mate was killed.

What would Worf possibley have against French pancakes?

Possibly because he got his spelling fuddled;)

NiteTrek October 25 2009 12:33 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

PTRACER wrote: (Post 3484754)
I don't know whether it was the quality of Suzie Plakson's acting,

No, it was the quality of Suzie Plakson's rack. ;)

Doug Otte October 25 2009 12:04 PM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

Sk'ehlyer wrote: (Post 3517491)
Quote:

Forbin wrote: (Post 3516298)
Quote:

GhostFaceSaint wrote: (Post 3515717)
It does make sense however for Worf to be only willing to kill the crepe after his mate was killed.

What would Worf possibley have against French pancakes?

Possibly because he got his spelling fuddled;)

Well, what word was really intended? I can't figure it out.

Doug

Edit: Oh, I just figured it out - "creep."

K'Ehleyr October 26 2009 01:59 AM

Re: Was killing K'Ehleyr the right decision?
 
Quote:

Doug Otte wrote: (Post 3518481)
Quote:

Sk'ehlyer wrote: (Post 3517491)
Quote:

Forbin wrote: (Post 3516298)

What would Worf possibley have against French pancakes?

Possibly because he got his spelling fuddled;)

Well, what word was really intended? I can't figure it out.

Doug

Edit: Oh, I just figured it out - "creep."

...and you missed the bit where he spelt 'possibly' wrong... but anyway instead of being pedantic let's turn it into a french pastry pun thread ~ or would that be too much of a pain o'chocolate?


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.