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Farrens August 28 2009 07:28 PM

Borg Origin
 
I know bringing up the Borg is probably asking for trouble, but I recently watched the episode "Unity" and was rather impressed. I felt that this episode presented a possible explanation for the beginnings of the Borg. I had always wondered what it was that took the Borg from what was presumably a single sentient species and turned them into the mechanical monstrosity we see in the current time line. The apparent joy felt by the mini-collective when chakotay was added into the collective shows the beginnings of a hunger that may have eventually overwhelmed and transformed the culture that first gave birth to the mind linking technology.

But more to the point. I was curious if any other episodes in Voyager or other Star Trek series/movies/novels have shed some light on the early Borg, and of course I'd love to hear all of your thoughts on the topic!

The Grim Ghost August 28 2009 07:52 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
The recent Destiny trilogy goes into the origin of the Borg.

Of course that is in the novels, and I personally don't really care for that take on it.

But they're a good read anyway, so you could start there.

crouteru August 28 2009 11:26 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
In Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth", the Vaadwaur scientist Gedrin tells Seven Of Nine that the Borg only held a small number of star systems 900 years prior to that episode. Therefore we can probably assume the Borg Collective has been around for about 1000 years by 2376.

Star Trek reviewer Jammer said in a blog a few years ago that when he pitched episode ideas for Voyager, he was told not to try and explain the origins of the Borg, so it seems the producers wanted to leave their origins to the viewers imagination.

Tallis Rhul August 29 2009 12:10 AM

Re: Borg Origin
 
As previously mentioned, the Borg origins are tackled in the Destiny Trilogy, and there is also a reference to their origin in Star Trek: Legacy (the PC game) - it's an extra on the disc, presented in a video format.

William Shatner also authored an origin for them I believe, I think it was Rebirth?

Feel free to shout up if you want spoilers for any of the above. They might make people go blind so I won't post them unless asked ^^

Allyn Gibson August 29 2009 04:09 AM

Re: Borg Origin
 
I tackled Borg history at length in the latest issue of Star Trek Magazine. (It's issue #20, has Patrick Stewart and a drone on the front cover.)

Yes, Destiny does offer an explanation for the Borg. Without going into great details, certain events about 6,000 years ago gave rise to the Borg.

However, I think that's also incomplete. Some novels have referred to the Borg as being active as early as two billion years ago. Clearly, both can't be right, can they?

I think they can work.

The Borg could simply be a natural evolutionary end to certain humanoid species; throughout time and space, different species merge with their computers, and create something Borg-like. In time, these Borg-like races could come together.

Or, the Borg pre-existed Destiny's revelations, and whatever was created in Destiny was, ultimately, assimilated into the Borg Collective. Personally, that's the sequence of events that I favor. (Specifically, I believe the Borg Queen arose due to that assimilation; there's evidence in Destiny for that viewpoint.)

But, if that's so, then what created the Borg?

Well, I worked out an origin. And it's really, really cool. Unfortunately, I couldn't use it. I hint at it, though. Bioweapons. I think the Borg were a bioweapons project gone horribly wrong, a weapon built for a war that they outlasted.

Kestrel August 29 2009 05:47 AM

Re: Borg Origin
 
I think Destiny far and away is the best explanation for Borg origin, as well as a gripping tale in its own right. The sense of tragedy and loneliness surrounding the Borg at their initial creation is chilling and beautifully executed.

kes7 August 29 2009 03:26 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
I kind of wish people wouldn't overthink this. They're the Borg Collective. They've been around for a long time. They're both scary and tragic. Why do we need a detailed explanation of their origins? It's much more fun to have room to speculate, in my opinion.

I'm more interested in their future than their past, anyway, and from what I've heard about Destiny, I don't like the direction they went with that ... I do admit I haven't read it for myself yet, though.

nx1701g August 29 2009 03:54 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
Quote:

Kestrel wrote: (Post 3347189)
I think Destiny far and away is the best explanation for Borg origin, as well as a gripping tale in its own right. The sense of tragedy and loneliness surrounding the Borg at their initial creation is chilling and beautifully executed.

I have to admit that I didn't think I'd like it - I had pretty much concluded the origins of the Borg the minute that the Caeliar ships were sent back in time and when I read the description of the chamber that they used to assimilate people into the gestalt - but I ended up being fascinated by it and it's my favorite origin.

I never understood the Shatner explanation that V'Ger created the Borg.

Farrens August 29 2009 04:16 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
[QUOTE=nx1701g;3347948]
Quote:

Kestrel wrote: (Post 3347189)
I never understood the Shatner explanation that V'Ger created the Borg.

In what novel (I assume) was this discussed?

nx1701g August 29 2009 04:19 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
^ The Return.

Farrens August 29 2009 04:44 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
thanks, I'll have to try and track that one down.

Allyn Gibson August 29 2009 06:33 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
Quote:

nx1701g wrote: (Post 3347948)
I never understood the Shatner explanation that V'Ger created the Borg.

That was running with an idea that Roddenberry had voiced (it's cited in the OkudaChron), though it's possible that Roddenberry was joking.

I don't have a problem with the Borg and Voyager 6 being connected, but the wormhole would have had to have taken Voyager 6 back in time as well, for Vejur to have traveled so far and learned so much. To say nothing of its encounters with Miss Piggy and Darth Vader. :)

Tallis Rhul August 29 2009 09:32 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
Quote:

Allyn Gibson wrote: (Post 3347001)
Yes, Destiny does offer an explanation for the Borg. Without going into great details, certain events about 6,000 years ago gave rise to the Borg.

However, I think that's also incomplete. Some novels have referred to the Borg as being active as early as two billion years ago. Clearly, both can't be right, can they?

Hey, of course they can - don't forget the Borg travelled back in time in First Contact. I'm pretty sure they could do that whenever they wanted, they didn't seem to need any special kit to get it going.

Quote:

Farrens wrote:
thanks, I'll have to try and track that one down.

OK, but be warned that you're probably not going to like what Shatner does with Kirk...

Brit August 29 2009 10:56 PM

Re: Borg Origin
 
I'm not too crazy about Trek Lit's interpretation of how the Borg came to be. I have my own idea, I used it in fic. Bottom line is that I think the Borg were a results of technology gone wrong, rather like Harlen Ellison's "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream."

Brit

Farrens August 30 2009 06:29 AM

Re: Borg Origin
 
Quote:

Brit wrote: (Post 3349007)
I'm not too crazy about Trek Lit's interpretation of how the Borg came to be. I have my own idea, I used it in fic. Bottom line is that I think the Borg were a results of technology gone wrong, rather like Harlen Ellison's "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream."

Brit


That's the idea I was getting from Unity. That the mind connecting technology likely started as a wonderful thing, that slowly warped the borg's original culture.


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