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-   -   Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=101998)

DigificWriter August 22 2009 05:56 PM

Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Hey. I'm re-reading Vanguard, and one of the things that I've enjoyed most about the series is how it's made mention of the rift in Klingon culture between the ridged Klingons and the 'QuchHa' (those without ridges), but it's also made me wonder something: have there been any novels that have explained how Kor , Kang, and Koloth were able to rise so high in the Klingon military when many of their fellow QuchHa could not?

Turtletrekker August 22 2009 07:30 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Try Forged in Fire.

KRAD August 22 2009 08:42 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
That is, in fact, the subject of "The Unhappy Ones," my Klingon anger story in next spring's Seven Deadly Sins anthology.

Andy Mangels August 22 2009 10:01 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
And it's one of the biggest elements of FORGED IN FIRE, as recommended.

lstyer August 23 2009 07:35 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Oh, man. I had no idea that Forged in Fire went into that. The Augment Virus explanation for the "Klingon Question" wasn't really what I would have picked out on my own, but I did want an explanation, and something along those lines was probably all that was left as a possibility after Koloth and Company showed up with Ridges on DS9. So, since that's what we have to work with, I'm always pretty interested to see how various authors approach it. Which is a long-winded way of saying that I'm even more interested in Forged in Fire than I was just thinking it was a Sulu story.

Thrawn August 23 2009 07:38 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Forged In Fire is one of my absolute favorite fill-in-the-gaps Trek novels. It covers implications of the virus, Sulu taking command, Curzon's diplomatic career... so much that we know happened, but we don't know how it happened. It really ties Enterprise, TOS, and DS9 together in a realistic and satisfying way.

I think that narratively it has its flaws, and the pacing slows waaaaaay down in the third quarter, but as a work of continuity it's beyond reproach. One of those books that goes a long way towards making the Trek Universe feel like one giant place, rather than 5 different series with different interpretations.

ryan123450 August 23 2009 07:40 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
I've read Forged in Fire a while back and I remember

Paris August 23 2009 07:45 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
I was just about to start DRG3's Serpents among the Ruins for some Sulu action (Demora, that is ;)), but now i'm wondering if I should read Forged in Fire first? I know I'll understand and most likely enjoy SatR without reading FiF...but I don't know. what do people think? Or does it not matter at all?

DGCatAniSiri August 23 2009 08:07 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
I don't think it matters one way or the other - Serpents takes place about... twenty or thirty years after Fire, and Serpents was published first, so really, I think it's completely the reader's choice on which to read first.

Therin of Andor August 23 2009 10:18 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Quote:

lstyer wrote: (Post 3327966)
I'm even more interested in Forged in Fire than I was just thinking it was a Sulu story.

IIRC correctly, it was in development for a long time, but almost always promoted as a "prequel to 'Blood Oath' (DS9)" novel long before we realised that Captain Sulu would be in it.

Of course, Kang and Sulu having an untold connection of their own, from a time between TOS and ST VI, was hinted at in VOY's "Flashback".

EmperorKalan August 23 2009 11:09 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
I think the IDW series Klingons: Blood Will Tell needs to be included in any reading list on this subject. It only delved briefly into the conflict itself, but it did show another perspective, from a highly-placed (as in: on the High Council) QuchHa family, in the same time period. The argument was that in the effort to prove their "Klingonhood", the QuchHa fuelled an entire new phase of expansion of the Empire. The prejudice existed, but was not insurmountable.

Also, it may be that a sufficiently large portion of the Klingon population was affected that keeping the QuchHa down completely just wasn't a feasible option.

(Looking forward to KRAD's upcoming story)

Andy Mangels August 23 2009 11:17 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 3328450)
IIRC correctly, it was in development for a long time, but almost always promoted as a "prequel to 'Blood Oath' (DS9)" novel long before we realised that Captain Sulu would be in it.

Nope, it was always going to be an Excelsior novel. It was actually the second book we were contracted to do, but kept getting put on hold while we got assigned other projects. In that time, the head ridges were explained, and we therefore had to incorporate that explanation into the story.

I don't recall all of the elements of our earlier plots, but I think we did deal with different Klingon castes and the head ridges from the start in the story development because obviously we had to deal with K, K, and K's physical transformations between one time and another.

Christopher August 23 2009 11:21 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Quote:

EmperorKalan wrote: (Post 3328617)
I think the IDW series Klingons: Blood Will Tell needs to be included in any reading list on this subject. It only delved briefly into the conflict itself, but it did show another perspective, from a highly-placed (as in: on the High Council) QuchHa family, in the same time period.

Blood Will Tell offers a rather different take on the status of quchHa' than Forged in Fire and Vanguard do; the novels portray them as a minority excluded from power, their role in the fleet being basically that of cannon fodder, while BWT portrays them as having higher status, with seats on the High Council. However, I like to believe they can be reconciled if you assume that what we're reading is filtered through different viewpoint characters' biases. For instance, BWT is from the perspective of a quchHa' who may be exaggerating the prominence of his people in his reminiscences, while conversely the characters in the novels may have an overly pessimistic view of the status of the quchHa'. You have to squint a little to make them fit together, but I think it's doable.

JD August 24 2009 04:41 AM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3328003)
I was just about to start DRG3's Serpents among the Ruins for some Sulu action (Demora, that is ;)), but now i'm wondering if I should read Forged in Fire first? I know I'll understand and most likely enjoy SatR without reading FiF...but I don't know. what do people think? Or does it not matter at all?

The two are completly unrelated, so you can read them in whichever order you want.

Paris August 24 2009 01:17 PM

Re: Kor, Kang, and Koloth and the QuchHa prejudice
 
Quote:

JD wrote: (Post 3329479)
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3328003)
I was just about to start DRG3's Serpents among the Ruins for some Sulu action (Demora, that is ;)), but now i'm wondering if I should read Forged in Fire first? I know I'll understand and most likely enjoy SatR without reading FiF...but I don't know. what do people think? Or does it not matter at all?

The two are completly unrelated, so you can read them in whichever order you want.

Sweet. Thanks JD & DGCatAniSiri. I'm only past the prologue of SatR at this point. It's pretty good so far. I like Harriman more at this point in his career :).


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