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-   -   HIDEF..too good? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=100738)

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 03:19 PM

HIDEF..too good?
 
We were watching TMP last weekend (I like to use it, and especially the Bluray version when testing something on my TV) and for the first time I noticed a matt-painting I had never seen. Its when Kirk's shuttle comes into the shuttle-port in San Francisco. The 'people' in the very far background are all part of a massive matt-painting, and never move. I had never noticed that before..

Another thing I noticed while watching khan? The first time they show the eel, you can tell it isn't sand at first in the cage..its is some kind of carpet because the sand doesn't move right.

Some of you may have already seen these things, so bravo zulu to you. But now, with my 1080p and blurays, I can REALLY see these things. I especially love the long corridor shots near engineering where you can tell its a matt-painting of the hallway. It really comes through, especially since you never see anyone walking back there...

Are there any more tidbits any of you have that we can look for? Its fun and even looking for things like that never ruins the movies...

Rob

CorporalClegg August 6 2009 04:07 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
I think you might be on to something.

The worst case I can think of is the special edition ANH DVDs. The lightsaber effect looks really bad, and the matte work during the TIE assault is really noticeable. I can't imagine what it looks like in bluray.

I haven't seen any of the Trek films in HD yet, but I can see where there'd be problems.

Ziz August 6 2009 04:10 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Is your TV one of the new 120Hz ones? If so, try to look at the movement and depth of the image. It looks like news or sports, right? I noticed it on my sister's set, not knowing that hers is 120Hz, and couldn't figure out why the image didn't look right until I saw it in a store side by side with a standard 60Hz set.

If your set is 120Hz, that may also be contributing to why you're noticing these things now.

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 04:22 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Quote:

Ziz wrote: (Post 3270106)
Is your TV one of the new 120Hz ones? If so, try to look at the movement and depth of the image. It looks like news or sports, right? I noticed it on my sister's set, not knowing that hers is 120Hz, and couldn't figure out why the image didn't look right until I saw it in a store side by side with a standard 60Hz set.

If your set is 120Hz, that may also be contributing to why you're noticing these things now.

I only noticed it because I was actually polishing my screen and while looking at one of the people in distance (Shuttle port) I realized the person didn't move, nor didn anyone else back there. They had real people standing near to where the matt-takes over. I'll give them credit; i never noticed it before. Whoever did the painting really did a great job....

And Clegg, what TIE attack are you talking about. The one where Luke/Han fight them off in the falcon? I'd like to go back and see that again too...love that sort of thing...

Rob

Pindar August 6 2009 04:29 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Totally, I got my new hd tv last night and started watching the TOS s1 blu-ray.

I said this in the TOS forum but everything looks liek a set to me now rather than a ship.

I am staring at zippers in costumes instead officers in uniforms.

Yeoman Randi August 6 2009 04:37 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Quote:

Pindar wrote: (Post 3270181)
<snip>
I am staring at zippers in costumes instead officers in uniforms.


:lol:

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 04:48 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Quote:

Pindar wrote: (Post 3270181)
Totally, I got my new hd tv last night and started watching the TOS s1 blu-ray.

I said this in the TOS forum but everything looks liek a set to me now rather than a ship.

I am staring at zippers in costumes instead officers in uniforms.

Im not sure what one it was, but they do a close up on Kirk, I think, and the zipper is various obvious. I had never seen it before. Another thing I am noticing is a lot of 5'oclock shadows on some of the men!!! Next time I will scrutinize Uhura/Rand and their legs!!! I better not see one hair!

Rob

jefferiestubes8 August 6 2009 05:40 PM

Star Trek on Blu-ray
 
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 3269927)
for the first time I noticed a matt-painting I had never seen. Its when Kirk's shuttle comes into the shuttle-port in San Francisco.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...9&postcount=13
were the Blu-ray screengrabs & discussion of what you speak of but they are no longer on the server. :confused:

Pindar wrote:
Quote:

I am staring at zippers in costumes instead officers in uniforms.
Quote:

Instead of concentrating on the episode I was being pulled out of it by seeing zips and fasteners.
It is the Catch-22.
That is why watching a DVD of an old Trek episode is fine as it is filmic and cinematic.
If TNG, DS9, or VOY were to get the remastered treatment to Blu-ray in HD the same problems would occur where you would be able to see mistakes that were masked by 480i resolution video mastering.
This is why you have fans that DO NOT want Star Trek on Blu-ray (mainly for the cost though). There is a loss of illusion and fantasy or this fictional world with too much resolution than was planned for when the episodes were shot.
The sole exception being Star Trek Enterprise which was telecined and mastered to HDCAM at 1080p and we'll surely see it on Blu-ray in the next few years.

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 06:17 PM

Re: Star Trek on Blu-ray
 
Quote:

jefferiestubes8 wrote: (Post 3270441)
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 3269927)
for the first time I noticed a matt-painting I had never seen. Its when Kirk's shuttle comes into the shuttle-port in San Francisco.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...9&postcount=13
were the Blu-ray screengrabs & discussion of what you speak of but they are no longer on the server. :confused:

Pindar wrote:
Quote:

I am staring at zippers in costumes instead officers in uniforms.
Quote:

Instead of concentrating on the episode I was being pulled out of it by seeing zips and fasteners.
It is the Catch-22.
That is why watching a DVD of an old Trek episode is fine as it is filmic and cinematic.
If TNG, DS9, or VOY were to get the remastered treatment to Blu-ray in HD the same problems would occur where you would be able to see mistakes that were masked by 480i resolution video mastering.
This is why you have fans that DO NOT want Star Trek on Blu-ray (mainly for the cost though). There is a loss of illusion and fantasy or this fictional world with too much resolution than was planned for when the episodes were shot.
The sole exception being Star Trek Enterprise which was telecined and mastered to HDCAM at 1080p and we'll surely see it on Blu-ray in the next few years.

Its strange in that, after seeing TOS episodes over hundreds of times, I like finding these things. Even with the movies. I have see KHAN more than any movie in my life, I'd say I'm well in the 500s.

Here's the biggie and I will be looking to see this weekend..is that RICARDO's chest or not in Khan???

Rob

jefferiestubes8 August 6 2009 06:32 PM

Star Trek on Blu-ray
 
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 3270550)
is that RICARDO's chest or not in Khan???

It is mentioned more than a few times in the SCE ST:II TWOK DVD special features that it is Ricardo Montalban's real chest.
on imdb.com
Quote:

It has been widely debated that Ricardo Montalban's chest was actually a prosthetic piece that he wore during the film. In the director's commentary in the special edition DVD, Nicholas Meyer is quoted as saying that it was, in fact, Montalban's actual chest and that he was a very muscular man who worked out. During publicity for the movie, during an appearance on "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" (1962), Montalban explained that he was able to achieve the look seen in the film by doing push-ups. "A lot of push-ups."

I guess seeing is believing...

Grant August 6 2009 06:35 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
You would have seen any imperfections in TMP when you saw it in the theater............

hi-def or Blu-ray is NOT a better picture than a movie has to begin with.
In fact, Blu-ray is still far less resolution than 35mm film.
If you had looked at that matte in 1979 you would have seen the same thing and maybe even seen more of it's 'unreality'.

The difference is of course that you would have been looking at it for the first or second time and would have been less attention to background detail.

Same with TOS. Yes you can see some imperefections, but we've (most of us) seen these episodes umpteen times and you start to occasionly wander form the story and look at minute details.
you show somebody who is open-minded about older sci-fi, but has never seen TOS----they will likely enjoy the episodes greatly and not pay that much attention to a loose thread on a shirt. The 20th time they sure might.

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 06:48 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 3270621)
You would have seen any imperfections in TMP when you saw it in the theater............

hi-def or Blu-ray is NOT a better picture than a movie has to begin with.
In fact, Blu-ray is still far less resolution than 35mm film.
If you had looked at that matte in 1979 you would have seen the same thing and maybe even seen more of it's 'unreality'.

The difference is of course that you would have been looking at it for the first or second time and would have been less attention to background detail.

Same with TOS. Yes you can see some imperefections, but we've (most of us) seen these episodes umpteen times and you start to occasionly wander form the story and look at minute details.
you show somebody who is open-minded about older sci-fi, but has never seen TOS----they will likely enjoy the episodes greatly and not pay that much attention to a loose thread on a shirt. The 20th time they sure might.


True..and I don't mean to sound as if I am making fun of them, or complaining. As I get older, and after have seeing these things so many times, its fun to try and see behind the curtain, if you will, and the tricks they try to pull on his. Using kids on a set to make it look bigger, that kind of thing...Movies are magic, and I guess you can say that the director is the master magician making it all look good with much help from all the others...

Even though I know KHAN reuses FX scenes, or cuts corners by filming the entire movie on one set (exaggeration I know) doesn't change my opinion that Khan is the best.

Rob

GNDN August 6 2009 06:52 PM

Re: Star Trek on Blu-ray
 
Quote:

jefferiestubes8 wrote: (Post 3270605)
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 3270550)
is that RICARDO's chest or not in Khan???

It is mentioned more than a few times in the SCE ST:II TWOK DVD special features that it is Ricardo Montalban's real chest.
on imdb.com
Quote:

It has been widely debated that Ricardo Montalban's chest was actually a prosthetic piece that he wore during the film. In the director's commentary in the special edition DVD, Nicholas Meyer is quoted as saying that it was, in fact, Montalban's actual chest and that he was a very muscular man who worked out. During publicity for the movie, during an appearance on "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" (1962), Montalban explained that he was able to achieve the look seen in the film by doing push-ups. "A lot of push-ups."

I guess seeing is believing...

Just saw TWOK on the big screen again! Awesome movie, awesome visuals, and a real chest on Montalban. Can't wait to get the theatrical cut on Blu-Ray Disc once I have a PS3 (holding out for the rumored price-break/slim model)

RobertScorpio August 6 2009 06:55 PM

Re: Star Trek on Blu-ray
 
Quote:

GNDN wrote: (Post 3270706)
Quote:

jefferiestubes8 wrote: (Post 3270605)
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 3270550)
is that RICARDO's chest or not in Khan???

It is mentioned more than a few times in the SCE ST:II TWOK DVD special features that it is Ricardo Montalban's real chest.
on imdb.com
Quote:

It has been widely debated that Ricardo Montalban's chest was actually a prosthetic piece that he wore during the film. In the director's commentary in the special edition DVD, Nicholas Meyer is quoted as saying that it was, in fact, Montalban's actual chest and that he was a very muscular man who worked out. During publicity for the movie, during an appearance on "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" (1962), Montalban explained that he was able to achieve the look seen in the film by doing push-ups. "A lot of push-ups."

I guess seeing is believing...

Just saw TWOK on the big screen again! Awesome movie, awesome visuals, and a real chest on Montalban. Can't wait to get the theatrical cut on Blu-Ray Disc once I have a PS3 (holding out for the rumored price-break/slim model)

One thing I like about these BLURAYS are the graphics of the HOME MENU. They have some real good STARFIELDS that would have made a great screen-saver!!!

Rob

GNDN August 6 2009 06:58 PM

Re: HIDEF..too good?
 
Menus CAN be pretty, but usually I just want to slip the disc in and WATCH the MOVIE! Paramount DVDs especially take so long to load since you can't skip the FBI warnings, logos and opening animations (especially troublesome when trying to watch TOS in production order, skipping discs...)

That said, I'm sure the BD menus will be fun to watch (at least the first time)


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