30th Annivesary of 1994!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Tallguy, Jan 21, 2024.

  1. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    :lol:

    I can kinda hear Garak saying that, but I can REALLY hear Dukat!

    Yeah, the colonists feeling abandoned to fascists is really understandable. Which, I think, made this one of the more interesting stories of early DS9. It's like the rebellion that NuBSG did later - it caused me to ask myself how far I would go.

    The handoff was great. I remember it being really cool to have that connection.

    I'm really looking forward to Part II. I hope to get to it later today. If not, then tomorrow.
     
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  2. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, Dukat believes in Dukat. Garak believes in Cardassia.


    Bashir: And there's more to life than just duty to the state!
    Garak: A Federation viewpoint if ever I heard one.
     
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  3. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And Damar believes in kanar? :rommie:
     
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  4. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All the kanar inside of Damar, no kanar outside of Damar.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Captain's log, supplemental. The Enterprise has left the Exeter and moved into close planet orbit. Although it appears the infection may strand us here the rest of our lives, I face an even more difficult problem. A growing belief that Captain Tracey has been interfering with the evolution of life on this planet. It seems impossible. A star captain's most solemn oath is that he will give his life, even his entire crew, rather than violate the Prime Directive.
     
  6. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Starfleet is not the Federation. Not that we've really had a show that has effectively shown us otherwise.
     
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  7. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    Point conceded. Garak is a Patriot. I think Dukat might've started as one, but he definitely ends up in the Selfish Bastard category.
     
  8. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    DS9: The Maquis, Part II

    A good second part - I won't call it an ending since The Maquis are just getting started. Sisko is in an unpleasant position throughout the episode, and it's clear his friendship with Hudson keeps him from entirely doing what seems to need to be done. Both Sisko and Hudson give each other multiple chances to change their minds, but in the end they just can't see eye-to-eye. Plus, Sisko has to deal with Dukat, who has a rather more violent way of handling conflicts.

    Odo finds out Quark sold weapons to Sakonna and Quark quickly tells what he knows. The Cardassians then throw Dukat under the bus, saying he and some other "rebels" were supplying the weapons. Sisko sees through that and knows the Central Command was supplying them. Sakonna attempts to mind meld with Dukat but his will and discipline are too strong. Sisko, Bashir, and Odo arrive to non-violently rescue Dukat, but he triggers a fight. Dukat and Sisko join forces to stop the Cardassian shipments and the Maquis.

    As always, Alaimo and Brooks are terrific together. John Schuck has a cameo as a Cardassian Legate.

    One of my favorite scenes in this is Quark telling Sakonna how illogical her position is and how the 3rd Rule of Acquisition is a better guide in this instance. For once, I agree with the Rules!

    In the end, Sisko knows he hasn't really solved anything.

    SISKO: I just got a communiqué from Starfleet congratulating me on my good work, and thanking me for preserving the peace with the Cardassians.
    KIRA: You deserve it. You prevented a war.
    SISKO: Did I? Or did I just delay the inevitable?

    I love this ending. It presages more to come with this mess and (IIRC) DS9 delivered. A darn good two-partner that opened up storytelling possibilities.
     
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  9. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Firstborn

    Good episode. More nuance and believability than I'm used to seeing in a Worf / Alexander episode. I was never happy with the additional time jump that Alexander took in DS9. It might have been an interesting story for Worf (maybe) but it wasn't particularly good for Alexander. He would be, what, Jake's age? (Brian Bonsall was three years younger than Cirroc Lofton.) I also don't like that Klingons apparently grow up in less than a decade but live for centuries.

    Boy, does this Alexander come from a different future or what?

    Is there already a clone Khaless running around at this point?

    The moment he spoke I said "Hey, that's the guy from The Defector!"

    Maybe I just never paid that much attention but I'm amazed how many crew are still wearing modified 1st season uniforms.

    The Duras Sisters! Boy, I'd love to see them in a major motion picture!

    Wait, didn't they just say the rite was at 13? Isn't Alexander like 5?

    Awww picture of Kehlar.

    "He would live like a Klingon." Something Worf never did.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Maquis Part 2.

    John Schuck! That man was made for Star Trek.

    "Anyone can blow up a ship. HA!" Gha! That laugh!

    Seeing the bottle of Kanar surprises me a bit since I have a bottle of it sitting right next to me. (I haven't opened it, I'm sure it isn't that consistency.)

    I've heard the rumor that in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy that the original "plan" (we are talking JJ here) was that Kylo Ren would be the opposite of Vader. He would be questioning and doubtful in the beginning and by the end he would find his resolve in the Dark Side be as bad as you could be. I see Dukat in this episode and I can think "Well, this is where he starts to lose faith in the High Command and by the end of the show he and Sisko will be fast friends in the best tradition of Star Trek."

    But it was not to be.

    "I'm sure you would have done the same for me." At first it plays as baseline Sisko: I'm saying this so that you will know that I know that it isn't true. Then he gives that chuckle and it plays on a bunch of levels. Is it true? Does he think it's true? Did he not think it was true until he said it out loud? (Pssst. It's not true.)

    The treaty. I don't get it. There are certainly real world parallels. I don't get them either.

    Taking Quark's analogy: Peace and cooperation are valuable and should be pursued. But also not at all costs. And this seems to be pushing the definition of "at all costs."

    If Quark had a customer who drank all his booze and promised to pay for it but never did, Quark would quit selling him booze. The Cardassians keep not paying their bar tab. And the Federation keeps selling them booze.

    The worst part is (for me, and I don't remember this whole story) that writer's POV seems to be that the Maquis / Settlers are coming off as worse than the Cardassians. I'm sure it's a flavor of "We know the Cardassians are monsters and liars. But you guys are the GOOD guys! We expect better!"

    Man, this is part of those "early days" of Deep Space Nine that people say "Wait until it gets good." This is pretty darn good.

    For those of you doing a better job of keeping up:
    May 8th – DS9: The Wire
    May 9th – TNG: Emergence

    After this we have 2 episodes of TNG.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    Yeah, that really confused me too.
     
  12. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TNG Bloodlines

    What a weird episode to go back to. The Battle!

    "She never said anything to you about being pregnant?" I mean, seriously! That's just crazy, right Beverly? (Does Jean-Luc just have some kind of vibe that makes women act this way?)

    Nope, sorry, the disappointed look on Beverly's face is just the most hilarious thing now.

    "Your mother never told me about you." I hope he remembered that speech.

    Beverly: "He's had twenty years to be angry that his father wasn't there." It keeps getting better!

    Hey! It's Annie from Caroline in the City!

    It was an OK episode. Much more significant in hindsight. But with only a couple of episodes to go? Meh.
     
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  13. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    DS9 The Wire

    God, Andrew Robinson is AMAZING in this one. Garak's past is... not exactly explored; more like a few pieces of the puzzle are uncovered. Sort of. Maybe.

    I love how stubborn and brave Bashir is for his patients, even going so far as to visit Garak's old mentor, the "retired" head of the KG... I mean, Obsidian Order.

    Exactly. It's so well done in every way.

    Plus, this episode has this brilliant ending:

    BASHIR: You gave me answers, all right, but they were all different. What I want to know is of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?
    GARAK: My dear Doctor, they're all true.
    BASHIR: Even the lies?
    GARAK: Especially the lies.

    Just an absolutely perfect episode, with a great guest appearance by Paul Dooley.
     
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  14. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    TNG Bloodlines

    Yes. :D

    I laughed at Jason hitting on Deanna. She responded beautifully.

    Agreed. But I have to give a shoutout to Lee Arenberg as Bok - he was nicely creepy and ultimately rather sad.
     
  15. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wait, what? "Hello, Poppet"?

    I didn't even realize that they had switched Boks. I don't watch first season Ferengi episodes if I don't have to.
     
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  16. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    DS9 - The Wire

    Well, that was just terrific. But everyone knows that.

    When I posted the clip of Garak and The State I didn't realize it was from the next episode.

    "Federation dogma and Human prejudice"

    Paul Dooley! YAY! You know Dooley played so many dweebs and schlubs. But he was really quite the powerhouse.

    I'm a doctor, not a botanist. Have they no shame?!?

    You know what? I NEVER disliked Bashir. Ever.

    I love seeing Odo react to Quark's name.

    I'm taking notes for this episode in Obsidian. It suddenly feels so sinister.

    Did anyone ever tell you you are an infuriating pest? (No beat missed) Chief O'Brian, all the time.

    Was the name Javert ever mentioned in connection with Odo in any of the writer's materials? I know Les Misérables was a big deal around this time.

    Ahhh the locked off, cross-fade montage to denote the passage of time. Add in motion control and you get Age of Ultron.

    That kanar looks pretty watery.

    "Especially the lies." Second only to the root beer scene, probably.
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
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  18. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    5/15/94 DS9 "Crossover"

    This is the first Mirror Universe story since the original and it's pretty damn good.

    We start with some humor. Bashir and Kira are on their way back to the station from the Gamma Quadrant. Julian cannot shut up, and even when he does, he's still annoying Kira! :lol:

    Weird accident in the wormhole and we're in the MU. Those Klingons were terrified of Kira.

    Garak is 2nd in command and all the nasty things we think he may have done in our universe are on display here. Slinky!Kira (aka the Intendant) appears and she seems thrilled with her doppelganger. She sends Bashir to the mines, which are overseen by Odo, and brings Kira to her office, where she explains about the last crossover between the universes and how Spock weakened the Terran Empire enough that the Alliance (Klingons and Cardassians) were able to take over. I love how Kira doesn't recognize the name Kirk.

    The Intendant initially appears much like our Kira, just less inhibited. She claims, "Unlike my First Officer, Mister Garak, I have no taste for violence. I regret using it even when it seems necessary." She loves that Kira understands her. Kira initially hopes to learn from the Intendant to make a strong Bajor back home.

    It really wouldn't take much to make Odo a fascist, would it? He has a need for order that makes him a good security head no matter who's in charge. Bashir has heard of Kirk and read about the MU adventure back in the Academy. The only thing they know is that transporters were involved, so Julian decides to talk to this O'Brien. Kira goes to the bar and finds out this Quark is also a bit shady. But it turns out he's helping Terrans escape and is arrested by Garak.

    MirrorSisko enters the bar and he is very different. He appears a little crazy. He and his crew do acts of piracy for the Intendant. Brooks is electrifying here. I couldn't keep my eyes off him.

    Bashir tells MirrorO'Brien about his Prime Universe self. "Smiley" is obviously unhappy but too scared to help.

    The Intendant is a lot like Dukat. She likes to appear caring and reasonable.
    INTENDANT: You did it because you felt sorry for these Terrans. You hate to see them suffer just as I do.
    QUARK: Yes, Intendant.
    INTENDANT: But where would we be without them? Who would perform the labor for the Alliance? (to GARAK) A quick death. Don't make him suffer any more.

    She's also a narcissist, who is in love with the idea of her double.
    GARAK: In love with you, my dear. She's all a-twitter about you, can't talk about anyone else. You're the perfect gift for the girl who has everything. She's taken you into her heart like a Drathan puppy lig left on her doorstep. Who else could she share her deepest secrets with, tell her troubles to, trust with her life?

    Garak tells Kira that if she impersonates the Intendant after he kills her, he'll help her and Bashir escape, but threatens Bashir is she doesn't agree. Kira realizes it's time to get the hell home and tells Julian to try to escape. Then she goes and tries to talk Sisko into helping, but he refuses.

    There's a gas leak in the mine. Bashir kills Odo(!) and goes into the access tunnels, where he finds O'Brien, who agrees to help him if he can go to the other universe with them. They get caught.

    The Intendant throws a party, with her and Kira dressed identically. Guards bring in Bashir and O'Brien. The Intendant is *really* upset that Odo's dead and hands them over to Garak for a very public punishment and execution. When she asks O'Brien why he did it, he gives a lovely speech about how Julian has changed his view of what Terrans could be. Colm does an amazing job here - very calm and heartfelt. He is such a good actor! His speech changes Sisko's mind and Sisko and his crew help them all to escape. O'Brien joins Sisko's crew (and rebellion) and Kira and Bashir return home through the wormhole.

    Sidenote: between the leather outfit, the bath, and the party dress, I realized that Nana Visitor is Super Hot. :D
     
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  19. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    May 9, 1994 TNG "Emergence"

    This is a *really* weird episode, even for a Holodeck-centric one. The Enterprise kind of has a baby. The action on the ship is mirrored in metaphor on the holodeck. Brent rolls his Rs doing Shakespeare. I kinda liked seeing Worf shoveling coal into a train boiler and Deanna had things to do, but I'm not entirely sure what I just watched. Always good to see David Huddleston though. I didn't actually recognize that I'd seen this episode until the image on the puzzle was shown.
     
  20. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    TNG "Preemptive Strike" (directed by Patrick Stewart)

    Ro! Maquis! Wheee!

    This is the last Maquis episode of TNG and the last appearance of Ro Laren until Picard. As always, Michelle Forbes does a terrific job, gradually moving her character from infiltrator to full Maquis.

    Ro has Serious Daddy Issues: we learn her father was killed in front of her when she was young. She takes the mission to make Picard proud, then bonds with Maquis member Macias. John Franklyn-Robbins played Macias so well, it's completely understandable that his death drives her to a crisis of conscience.

    I loved that Ro tried to back out of the mission because of her misgivings - it seems like the right thing to do - but disappointed that Picard didn't let her, threatening her with (another) court martial instead. Stewart and Forbes have great chemistry on screen, so I can see why they brought her back for Picard.

    A really good episode with great character moments.