If they had filmed "Hollow Pursuit" today, would Barclay have remained on the Enterprise at the end?

Which is also quite possible.

Or it can be explained that by 24th century science have found some kind of "cure" for transsexualism which doesn't require transition.

 

I wasn't implying anything platonic, just that sex has to be off-screen and off-dialog

 

There is other evidence that what goes on on the holodeck is that person's business and theirs alone, unless they invite someone in.

In DS9's "IF WISHES WERE HORSES", while Bashir was trying to apologize for having a fantasy (which is his right), Dax told Bashir that she felt that when everyone saw fake Dax everyone was intruding (they didn't really have a choice due to it being an alien making the dream come alive) on his private fantasies and didn't really have a problem with his fantasy. (Other than asking in a joking way if he really preferred her so submissive.)

(While this wasn't a holodeck situation, it's still a possible take on this scenario.)

 

He didn't do that. The computer made her more flirty. The program started off where she was just reciting information like a computer. All he asked was for a hologram that acted more like the real Brahams in order to make it easier to interact with. It is kind of interesting why the computer made her do what she did.

It didn't have access to personal logs from her. My only guess is it must of used images of her interacting maybe with her husband in public settings and basically created a Brahams replica to be flirty because maybe their is public records were she is being that way with her husband or maybe using a personal anecdote in a speech were see talked about giving him a back massage in college or something as kind joke.

 

He flirted with her. If you watch Booby Trap again it's clear.

 

Exactly. Geordi simply asked the computer to use whatever information was available on Brahms at the time to make the interaction not as computer-like. Geordi had no way of knowing what would be the result, especially since the computer said there would be a decent margin of error.

 

If they filmed it today, they would have simply assigned the plot to one of the main characters, who would already possess most of Barclay's personality issues and social anxiety.

 

It didn't feel like much flirting to me. You have the one scene were she wants to rub his neck but for the most part he is pretty focused on solving the problem they were trying to solve. Once the problem is solved you can tell he liked interacting with her but still shut the program off. I assume he never intended to ever go back because why would he.

 

Yes but they would miss the point. We see him fumble with the lady he is on a date with in part because he is trying to hard to be romantic on the holodeck in the beginning. He ends up instead eventually bonding with a woman (holographic though) in a situation where he is more comfortable, in his environment and that his him being a engineer trying to work a problem . He ends up liking her but in the end she is not real. Just a hologram and while he might be tempted to do more he gives her a goodbye kiss and shuts of the program. Never expecting to see her again.

 

My point is that Barclay's character was a 'social misfit', and an outlier among the regular cast. The ways these shows are written today, Barclay would have been one of the regular cast, and as such, would not 'leave the ship' after the events depicted in this episode. The elements of his character that branded him a 'misfit' in the 90's are embraced and accepted as mainstream today. I give you DISCO as the hard proof.

The bolded part is the crux of the issue. You can't 'bond' with something that isn't real. It's just fantasy, or imagination. A relationship on the holodeck is like an elaborate daydream. It may be satisfying on a certain level, but its not a real relationship in any form. Ultimately, you are interacting with yourself on the basis of inputs made to an AI. Even if Barclay is having sex with an avatar or Troi or Crusher on the holodeck, he's actually just wanking it to the most elaborate VR deepfake porn ever created. The problem for him is that others can discover what he's doing rather than it being just in the privacy of his head.

 

Well, another difference between the DS9 holosuite and the TNG holodeck is that the former is owned by a private individual and rented for a fee to other private individuals, the latter is a piece of equipment owned by Starfleet and which can ALSO be used for leisure by its members and kindly granted. To use the modern analogy again: if you are sure that it remains private, you can create your own deepfake porn at home on your computer using photos of your hot colleagues taken from Linkedin.

But let's imagine that your company allows you to use your work computer (for a limited time each day) also for fun. A company where I worked allowed computers to be used from 1pm to 2pm (lunch break) to play Quake III on a local server. And let's imagine that I abuse this concession for famous AI porn.

Not only would it be ethically wrong but almost certainly illegal (depending on where you are, I'm very sure it would be illegal in every country of the EU).

If you are willing to go beyond these limits to satisfy your needs, there is a big problem.

 

Okay, I had forgotten about Barclay kissing holo-Troi.

My point still stands... what someone does on the holodeck is their business, unless it interferes with their ability to do their job.

I think Geordi even made that point to Barclay.

No one has any right to tell someone else what kind of programs they can play on the holodeck. As Geordi said, there are no regulations about using real people in a simulation.

And since Barclay was not acting like a sexual predator or attacking his fellow officers in real life, I don't see the problem. The only issue was he allowed his holodeck adventures affect his job, and that is when everyone started having a problem with him. And rightfully so. (Their demeanor could have been better, but it was a recurring problem for quite a while by the start of the episode. So I can understand the frustration.)


And by the way, the fake Dax was not a hologram... it was a creation from inside Bashir's head. So he didn't create a hologram of her.

 

It's true others can find out but they can only find out by invading his privacy. Which is why the real problem at least in terms of rights is RIker,Troi and Geordi walking in on him. Barclay having sex with fake copies of his co-workers along with his other issues is more about psychological issues. That along with his holodeck addiction. Something that you would hope he would get help with but at the same time not a criminal problem. Which he did actually get help. When we see him again in season 4 he is trying to b more outgoing by doing plays for Dr Crusher. He was still having issues with confidence and nobody even knew then his issue with transporters but you can see he has been working on him self since we saw him in season 3.

 

I thought about it a bit and, well, I think Barclay is at fault.
If he were simply a civilian, he wouldn't have to seek treatment. Sure, it wouldn't be a healthy life, but it would still be his responsibility.

On the Enterprise, the life and death of people could depend on his actions. If his problems impact this, well, that would be his duty
a) try to solve them.
b) if he can't/wants to, move to a position with less responsibility.

 

Well his issues were impacting his job performance for sure. When we first see him he is being late for work and LaForge was having issues with him. It's kind of implied he might have been having issues in his previous posting and only got on the Enterprise because that ships Captain was "buttering their bread" because the Enterprise needed a engineer.

The thing is though even if he was having sex with holograms of the crew and still doing his job well it would not be a issue. I mean it would be a personal issue for Barclay in terms of dealing with his personal issues that would no doubt be effecting his personal life but none of that would be Starfeet's business until it did start to impact his work.

 

Well, the problem is all here right? When your problem impact your social/work life. A colleague of one of my ex-girlfriends was caught downloading porn on his work computer. The first time he was given a warning. The second time he was let go. My ex told me that everyone knew he had a problem, but rather than giving him advice, what could be done?

 

I've made the observation before that I don't think there would be any need/desire for a "cure"... medical science is advanced to the point that you can full transition in like, an afternoon. They take a human and surgically modify them into a Klingon in like, an hour or two. Going male to female or vice versa should be essentially effortless. We even know by the 24th century they can grow limbs and such, so... one could potentially switch back and forth and continue to be fully functional.

I really feel trans people as we might identify them/as they identify today may be exceedingly rare by the 24th century, not in any negative way, really in the most positive way possible. The trans label probably becomes unnecessary. If you're a male and transition to a female overnight, you're a female.

Yeah sure we don't see nonbinary or other gender identities, that we know of anyway. That's a two pronged issue, it's the real world "product of it's time" type thing... such identities were extremely uncommon. I also suspect that a good deal of that today is cultural, and isn't something with will necessarily persist. It might. It's ok if it does, but it is very much something that is kind of en vogue in certain circles. It just as easily could change as time goes on to be less of a cultural thing, leaving a very small percentage of people who identify in such a way.


On the OP issue... I don't think his choice of holodeck program is really of any concern to anyone and to be honest it feels implied that it's... a common enough activity that damn near everyone partakes in. He's doing on it on his own time, he just has an addiction. The fact that he chooses to have people he knows/works with in the program is really irrelevant... might be offputting to those people, but again if we're going to be honest... it's probably not uncommon. I would be willing to wager money that a VAST majority of us would do something similar.

 

I have a feeling that if Picard hadn't ordered Geordi to get to know him better it would have eventually led to Barclay probably being kicked out of Starfleet. Granted it might just at first be a transfer to another ship. One that is not the flagship. Eventually it would have caught up to him.