A question about Picard's first officer situation...when he's talking about breaking in his new first officer during the reception toast, was Data the one who was supposed to be filling that role?
Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?
- Thread starter Mr Light
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It's a matter of debate in the finished cut of course. But in the original cut of the movie, his new first officer was going to be Commander Martin Madden, who even had a brief scene that was filmed but was left on the cutting room floor, with Madden transfering to Enterprise and getting the baton passed to him by Riker.
Naturally, the spin-off material (comics, novels, etc) ignored this, as it was never in the theatrical cut so it didn't "count".
Did I miss the Nick Meyer movie in which this happened?
Yes, absolutely crazy. We'd never see something like that on TOS. Not in a million years.
The Madden scene that was posted here is what brought up my question. Was Madden assigned as XO at the end of the movie only because Data had died? Was Data the new XO that Picard was referring to in the toast?
Did I miss the Nick Meyer movie in which this happened?
Yes, absolutely crazy. We'd never see something like that on TOS. Not in a million years.
You said anyone connected to the TOS movies.
Maybe you could add these scenes if you nixed the dune buggy stuff, trimmed the wedding - otherwise its too much IMO.
The original ending with the new first officer deserved to get cut.
Ah, okay. That's different then. In that case... did I miss the TOS movie in which this happened?Did I miss the Nick Meyer movie in which this happened?Yes, absolutely crazy. We'd never see something like that on TOS. Not in a million years.
You said anyone connected to the TOS movies.
Damn, you're argumentative.
Alright, fine. You said it would be crazy for anyone connected to the TOS films to think the double evil twin plot was a good idea. Yes, there are people connected to the TOS films who thought that giving his two main characters evil twins was a good idea. His name was Gene Roddenberry.
Nowhere in your post did you state a requirement that the plot had to show up in a TOS film. If you're going to be all crazy pedantic you might want to pay attention to the content of your posts.
Some movies are just that way. They will seem better as they age, but are not very good when they first come out. It is a decent movie, I don't think it's as bad as everyone says, either. Granted, it's not the best by far, but I don't think it's a terrible movie.
That seems to happen a lot with music, too. I remember back in 1979, I thought that if I heard Lonesome Loser by the Little River Band on the radio one more time, I was going to blow my brains out. Little did I know then that thirty years later, I'd proudly own a copy!
That has yet to happen with Nemesis, though...
There is just something about it to me, that every scene seems infused with a depressing tone. Maybe my perception will change.
Maybe...
There are many small things wrong with the film that grate on me (such as Worf back in uniform for no reason, the pointless buggy ride, the nature/nurture 'arguement' that goes nowhere and does nothing, Deanna's apparent inability to press buttons herself), but the main issue I have with the film is the last B-4 scene.
Data has done the most human thing possible and sacrificed himself for his captain, friend and mentor, had his friends mourn his loss, then here is something that looks just like Data and is hinted at having had his memories successfully transfered, thereby making Data's last act a pointless sham.
Data has done the most human thing possible and sacrificed himself for his captain, friend and mentor, had his friends mourn his loss, then here is something that looks just like Data and is hinted at having had his memories successfully transfered, thereby making Data's last act a pointless sham.
Data died. If the data and pattern transfers later mean that B4 is able to emulate Data precisely, even if people who know him are willing to call him Data, even if he believes that, himself, that doesn't mean Data isn't dead. And if I were Starfleet, I'd be leery of giving him back "his" rank and security clearances, but really, which main Trek character HASN'T had something happen that should have meant they had to retire? I mean, they've got Locutus of Borg in a captain's chair, fer cryin' out loud - and he's hearing voices and still obviously under their influence!
Yes, absolutely crazy. We'd never see something like that on TOS. Not in a million years.
To be fair, the Kirk vs. Shapeshifter Kirk in Star Trek VI was NOT the hook that the whole story was dependent on. And to give credit where it's insanely obvious, Martia was smarter, more clever and far more likable than Shinzon.
And even the times on TOS where they had evil twins... oh, wait, that's right, they never did that on TOS. The first evil twin in Trek was (drumroll, please) Lore. 
Kirk's good/evil transporter split. Spock/Mirror Spock (yes, there were other mirror people, but his was the only one that got characterization in both versions - and he's pretty much the BASIS for giving an evil twin a goatee!)And even the times on TOS where they had evil twins... oh, wait, that's right, they never did that on TOS. The first evil twin in Trek was (drumroll, please) Lore.
Oh, and those two jackwagons in Let This Be Our Last Battlefield. I know, not twins, but for all intents and purposes they may as well have been.
I watched this again the other night, probably the 3rd time I've seen it at most, having not watched it in several years. To be fair to it I did enjoy it much more, but some bits still just don't hold up. I disliked the tacky and unnecessary mind rape scene even more this time, though I was reminded that the action scenes are still pretty good....but the way they act like they've never seen another Data type android before is ludicrous. It seems like they're thinking "Oh no, its..." but then that never goes anywhere.
If ALL of Data's personality and ALL of his memories were in B4, then in what way is B4 not really Data?
What is an "individual" if not their personality and memories?
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