Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Cara007, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Just to address the OP assertion, has there ever been a Star Trek feature writer or writing team that has not been made to endure the wrath of the fans at some point before, during or after? Why do you think that would ever change no matter who replaced Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof? Personally, yes, I think the whole team should be fired for listening to Lindelof. Lindelof himself seems to have quietly been sent to Siberia. But that's a little besides the point. The feature franchise itself appears to be a Kobayashi Maru exercise every aspiring Trek writer is put through. I have seen the simulator and it is us.
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Ironically, OK&L would probably have continued to get a free ride on the schlock factor of their writing until well after the release of their third film if they hadn't gotten cocky.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    Imperial Rome at least had a Senate.
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    It's with that line that the veil drops and I think we see the real Khan.
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    It's a nice soundbite, but you are wrong when you say it does "logically". Logically, it's not required at all.
     
  6. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    Unless there have been zero TV shows/movies casting a dark-skinned person as a terrorist since September 11, 2001, I doubt that should have been a huge problem.

    There were some Emperors who cared what the Senate thought. Then there were others who just did what they wanted anyway, and some of the Senators took matters into their own hands (or got cooperation from the Praetorians or the army).
     
  7. The Doctor

    The Doctor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Location:
    The Doctor's TARDIS
    I don't think it was ever the intention of the film to somehow give justification for Khan's actions but, rather, motivation. I believe that the tears were real. Khan did feel some sort of loyalty for his fellow supermen and he acted based on that loyalty.

    It was a nice flavor to the character and it felt very much in line with the Khan of 'Space Seed.'
     
  8. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    So Trek should have continued the unpleasant stereotype?
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    As I recall it was Orci, a Hispanic (Mexican/Cuban), who mentioned the concern over using the brownskinned terrorist stereotype.
     
  10. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    The weird part is that on JJ's Lost, there most definitely were dark-skinned terrorists, and from Iraq no less. I don't seem to recall any fuss over that, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. It seems moronic to say that a terrorist couldn't feasibly be anything but white because of some sort of PC taboo.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    Lost debuted nearly a decade ago. People and perceptions change.
     
  12. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Personally I'm more worried about the people who planned the events of 9/11 continuing the "unpleasant stereotype". Of course I've always had difficulty keeping my priorities straight.

    Yes, and as a "person of pale", I'm already starting to feel stereotyped. :lol: Oh well, I just hope someone's keeping score so one day dark-skinned actors will be allowed to be considered for these "forbidden" roles again.

    Not always for the better it seems.
     
  13. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Italy, EU
    So you are ok with racism because of 9/11. Probably also because FREEDOM. Good to know.
     
  14. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    What does that have to do with anything? Imperial Rome's Senate had no meaningful power in itself. That's what made it Imperial Rome as opposed to Republican Rome.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
  16. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Yet people still wonder why it might have been a good idea to have a white guy play Khan this time around...
     
  17. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Uhhh... isn't "casting a South Asian as a South Asian villain would have been dangerously racist" actually pretty Orwellian logic? I mean, South Asian actors would be pretty ideal for bringing some real depth and authenticity to even futuristic villains notably from theirs or related cultural milieux.

    And besides, all you would need to keep any such villain from being a horrid stereotype that reinforces racist hostilities would be some decent writers --

    -- oh.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Or a generally less judgmental American public.
     
  19. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Actually I made it clear I was against the racism that says a person should be ruled out of playing a role based solely on the colour of their skin. I think we just have a difference of opinion on how the world can be best "put to rights", or in this case, whether it even still needs to be. I.e. is stereotypical casting still a problem? Even in TOS there were plenty of white villains so how is Khan being an Indian of some variety racist or evil?

    I don't see advocating for the ability to have a "dark-shinned" terrorist in a movie as in any way racist. Not being able to do so however, I do see as racist. Nor do I think it is a matter of FREEDOM. Its a matter of fairness and equal opportunity.

    But thanks for not jumping to conclusions. ;)


    Decent writing in a action blockbuster? :lol: I don't know(?). But having Khan as a dark-skinned person was an opportunity to make a point, if they had wanted to. Instead they avoided the issue and we got that "drone" business etc (they were actually just missiles anyway). OK, a considerable improvement on the previous movie in that department, I will grant you.
     
  20. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Nah, that's an excuse, now. The bulk of the American movie-going public is just as capable of seeing a South Asian in a villain's role as it was of seeing Michael Clarke Duncan play the Kingpin, or Denzel Washington play Alonzo Harris, without losing its collective s***.