Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

[Opus]

if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

Wait - How did he treat "us the fans"? I'm confused.

He's only been involved in making two multi-million dollar blockbuster movies that put Star Trek back in the "cool to like it" category again.

Then he tells off a few internet message board hardliners and all of a sudden he's a Denebian Slime Devil? No.

Personally, I hope there is no Trek show again. Ever. I think the internets would explode if there was.

 

[Harbinger]

don't think chris pine would do the series,he doing a lot of movies since trek.if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

He treated me to two movies I liked.

Exactly.

Personally, I love the Alternate Universe. I don't really get all the hate Abrams, Kurtzman and Orci get.

 

[The Wormhole]

don't think chris pine would do the series,he doing a lot of movies since trek.if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

But it's okay for Trek fans to treat the creators like shit and they're suppose to smile and take it?

That's what Berman and Braga did.

 

[M'Sharak]

don't think chris pine would do the series,he doing a lot of movies since trek.if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

But it's okay for Trek fans to treat the creators like shit and they're suppose to smile and take it?

That's what Berman and Braga did.

People talked a lot of smack about Berman and Braga—some may still be bashing away, for all I know—but that's always been from a comfortable distance. Was there ever an instance of anyone pulling that while interacting with B&B directly? I'm not so sure they would have been smiling and saying how very pleased they were had something like that occurred.

If Orci has treated anyone badly, it was a tiny handful of people who been getting up his nose on a public forum discussion in which he was participating, and he promptly apologized to all concerned for having lost his cool. As for his treatment of the "fanbase-at-large," the worst that can be said is that Orci didn't write the movie some few hardcore fans might have written, had they, by some miraculous non-chain of events, been transported into his place.

What Orci doesn't need to apologize for is doing what he was hired to do by the studio which owns the rights to Star Trek. It's Paramount's property, and Orci had put in the time and done the work such that he was in a position to be able to accept the job they offered.

 

[The Wormhole]

People talked a lot of smack about Berman and Braga—some may still be bashing away, for all I know—but that's always been from a comfortable distance. Was there ever an instance of anyone pulling that while interacting with B&B directly?

The closest I can think of is a few years back Braga was speaking at a university and asked a show of hands how many people in attendance knew who he was. When the ones who knew of him raised their hands, Braga then asked "and how many of you hate me?"

And that's all Orci needs to do, be aware of how he's perceived by fandom and roll with it. Whether or not one agrees with it or not, he does have a reputation for senseless action and idiot humour thanks to not just his Trek movies, but also Transformers. Self-deprecating jokes at his own expense whenever a smartass fan tries to provoke him is a better way to deal with that situation than "fuck off you shitty fan."

 

[BillJ]

...is a better way to deal with that situation than "fuck off you shitty fan."

I'd rather he tell the shitty fans to fuck off. Just because they don't like something does give them the right to abuse the writers.

 

[Captain Jed R.]

And I'd rather someone tell him to stop going on fan forums. There's always going to be people disagreeing with how he does things, with how Abrams does things, with how they've done it all in general. I should know, I'm one such individual. It's the nature of the beast. If he's so easily baited as to get into arguments with fans, he should stay off forums. Since he doesn't listen to the fans who criticise his work anyway, or at least if he does his work is not informed by those criticisms, his presence on said forums is totally irrelevant, and his outburst embarrassing and unprofessional, which is probably something he realised since he apologised. No matter how unpleasant a fan is, telling fans to "fuck off" is a bad move all round.

 

[BillJ]

So they shouldn't interact with fandom because of a few shitty people? It's one thing to disagree with choices they make, it's a whole different thing to be abusive towards them.

 

[Captain Jed R.]

So they shouldn't interact with fandom because of a few shitty people? It's one thing to disagree with choices they make, it's a whole different thing to be abusive towards them.

Good example from Doctor Who. Helen Raynor, one of the script editors, did a badly regarded episode. She then went on a fan forum, where her episode was slated and she herself personally attacked (Im not sure to what extent - it might have been merely harsh critiques of her writing, or it might have been more). Apparently she later rang the producer of the show to cry down the phone, upset as all heck.

The point being, fan forums online are no place to go to get feedback. Most of us - yourself for example, and I like to hope myself - manage to be reasonably polite in the expression of our wordings, but some are not. For people in professional positions to get dragged into that mud slinging and anonymous ranting is unprofessional for one thing, and it doesn't do anything anyway since (unless I miss my mark) there's very little fan-input taken into account from these interactions in their work. What's more important to them is their own desire as storytellers and the demands of higher powers in the industry.

Faced with that, the actual need to go on fan forums to be so annoyed as to embarrass yourself by being rude in such a manner is negligible at best. It's better for them to avoid it entirely. Saves them the aggro, saves them the opportunity to make asses of themselves and increase the aggro, saves bad PR from headlines saying "Orci tells fans to fuck off for not liking his work".

 

[SeerSGB]

Dude's got as much right as any of us to join the forums. By the same token, he's got the same right yo snap back at people that are pissing him off. I have zero issue with what he did, cause any one of us would had likely done the same if it was two fans having a going at each other.

 

[BillJ]

I'm of the opinion that certain fans need to grow up.

 

[Captain Jed R.]

Dude's got as much right as any of us to join the forums. By the same token, he's got the same right o snap back at people that are pissing him off. I have zero issue with what he did, cause any one of us would had likely down the same if it was two fans having a going at each other.

But he isn't just a fan. He works on the production. Fairly or not - and it isn't fair, it's really not - that puts him in a position where what he does can negatively affect PR. "Snappjng back" is perfectly acceptable if you're just a fan. If you're a professional reacting to fans, however, you have to act like a professional. Yes, any one of us can and would go down the same route. However, any one of us are not high-up representatives of the production company responsible for making Star Trek at this time.

Not saying I agree with it being the case, but what he says now carries more weight than just "a fan on a forum" by virtue of him working on the product, including the snapping back.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm of the opinion that certain fans need to grow up.

Definitely. But Orci's not helping things by stooping to the level of those certain fans.

 

[Opus]

don't think chris pine would do the series,he doing a lot of movies since trek.if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

But it's okay for Trek fans to treat the creators like shit and they're suppose to smile and take it?

That's what Berman and Braga did.

Ha!

Berman - maybe. Braga - Hardly. He was quite outspoken about overly critical fans in Sci Fi Universe and elsewhere online.

 

[SeerSGB]

But it's okay for Trek fans to treat the creators like shit and they're suppose to smile and take it?

That's what Berman and Braga did.

Ha!

Berman - maybe. Braga - Hardly. He was quite outspoken about overly critical fans in Sci Fi Universe and elsewhere online.

Yeah "take it" was never Braga's style.

Dude's got as much right as any of us to join the forums. By the same token, he's got the same right o snap back at people that are pissing him off. I have zero issue with what he did, cause any one of us would had likely down the same if it was two fans having a going at each other.

But he isn't just a fan. He works on the production. Fairly or not - and it isn't fair, it's really not - that puts him in a position where what he does can negatively affect PR. "Snappjng back" is perfectly acceptable if you're just a fan. If you're a professional reacting to fans, however, you have to act like a professional. Yes, any one of us can and would go down the same route. However, any one of us are not high-up representatives of the production company responsible for making Star Trek at this time.

Not saying I agree with it being the case, but what he says now carries more weight than just "a fan on a forum" by virtue of him working on the product, including the snapping back.

Just cause he works on the production, doesn't mean he has to take the shit and smile. It's a mindset I've never got behind: the one that says that creators should just take the abuse with a smile and keep their mouths shut.

 

[Timewalker]

don't think chris pine would do the series,he doing a lot of movies since trek.if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

But it's okay for Trek fans to treat the creators like shit and they're suppose to smile and take it?

If they create shit, they should expect to be told that some don't like it. Merely telling someone you don't like their creation isn't the same as "treating them like shit."

if orci create a new trek series,and after the way he treating us the fans, I wont watch it.

Wait - How did he treat "us the fans"? I'm confused.

He's only been involved in making two multi-million dollar blockbuster movies that put Star Trek back in the "cool to like it" category again.

Do you only like something when public opinion says it's acceptable? Personally, I have liked Star Trek for over 35 years and I don't give a damn if the rest of the planet thinks it's "cool" or not.

Just cause he works on the production, doesn't mean he has to take the shit and smile. It's a mindset I've never got behind: the one that says that creators should just take the abuse with a smile and keep their mouths shut.

They should take honest criticism. Whether they choose to smile is up to them. Of course I would not expect them to take abuse aimed at their personal lives or families, since that crosses the line (just thinking back to some really nasty stuff said about Kevin J. Anderson on some of the Dune forums; criticize the writing, yes... heap abuse on his non-professional life or family, no).

 

[Balrog]

They should take honest criticism.

From what I read on that thread Orci was involved with, those fans were not engaged in "honest criticism". They were being rude and nasty, and taking their fair share of personal swipes, i.e. being total fucking asshats. I don't blame Orci for going nuclear on that shit.

 

[Shazam!]

They should take honest criticism.

From what I read on that thread Orci was involved with, those fans were not engaged in "honest criticism". They were being rude and nasty, and taking their fair share of personal swipes, i.e. being total fucking asshats. I don't blame Orci for going nuclear on that shit.

Here's an example of the 'personal swipes' that prompted Orci's participation in the thread discussion. Bear in mind this is the only part of article that mentions the writing (and thus Orci's prticipation) direct:

A lot of critical barbs were aimed at the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness about the script and plot of the film. I won’t join in that chorus, because writing a multi-billion dollar film is something I have never had to do. The pressure must be IMMENSE, and there are many hoops that you have to jump through to produce a script for such a project.

Obviously worthy of 'going nuclear' right? Orci's response:

I think the article above is akin to a child acting out against his parents. Makes it tough for some to listen, but since I am a loving parent, I read these comments without anger or resentment, no matter how misguided.

Having said that, two biggest Star Treks in a row with best reviews is hardly a description of “broken.” And frankly, your tone and attidude make it hard for me to listen to what might otherwise be decent notions to pursue in the future. Sorry, Joseph. As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t.

Respect all opinions, always, nonetheless.

: |

 

[SeerSGB]

Orci's "fuck you" wasn't directed at the writer of the article, but at the ass-hatted people in the comments section. He got suckered into a board-fight, plan and simple.

Let's look at Simon Pegg who made headlines shortly before Orci for saying "fuck you" when he ws questioned about STID being voted "worse Trek movie" by less than a 100 fans at a Con'.

"Can I just please point out, following a few recent headlines of 'Simon Pegg says 'f–k you' to Star Trek fans,' I was doorstepped by a journalist very early in the morning who told me that Into Darkness had been voted the worst in a poll or something,” Pegg said in an interview with Collider.

The journalist in question was Huffington Post's Mike Ryan, who quoted Pegg as saying: "a lot of hard work and love went into that movie, and all J.J. wanted to do was make a film that people really enjoyed. So, to be subject to that level of sort of, like, crass f–king ire, I just say f–k you. Not you, but the people who said that."

People are pushing the production team's buttons, and they're not putting up with it.

 

[M'Sharak]

They should take honest criticism.

From what I read on that thread Orci was involved with, those fans were not engaged in "honest criticism". They were being rude and nasty, and taking their fair share of personal swipes, i.e. being total fucking asshats. I don't blame Orci for going nuclear on that shit.

Here's an example of the 'personal swipes' that prompted Orci's participation in the thread discussion. Bear in mind this is the only part of article that mentions the writing (and thus Orci's prticipation) direct:

A lot of critical barbs were aimed at the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness about the script and plot of the film. I won’t join in that chorus, because writing a multi-billion dollar film is something I have never had to do. The pressure must be IMMENSE, and there are many hoops that you have to jump through to produce a script for such a project.

Obviously worthy of 'going nuclear' right? Orci's response:

I think the article above is akin to a child acting out against his parents. Makes it tough for some to listen, but since I am a loving parent, I read these comments without anger or resentment, no matter how misguided.

Having said that, two biggest Star Treks in a row with best reviews is hardly a description of “broken.” And frankly, your tone and attidude make it hard for me to listen to what might otherwise be decent notions to pursue in the future. Sorry, Joseph. As I love to say, there is a reason why I get to write the movies, and you don’t.

Respect all opinions, always, nonetheless.

: |

(emphasis mine)

That's all very nice, but Balrog wasn't talking about the editorial.

Try looking instead at the comments by Ahmed - beginning at around #311, say. Orci invited him to offer up some of that aforementioned "honest criticism," but Ahmed didn't seem especially interested in doing that. Subsequent comments by other posters suggest that Ahmed has something of a history at TrekMovie of being rude and unpleasant to others, and that they weren't at all surprised to see him doing so in the "Star Trek is broken" thread.