Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

[BillJ]

As a Netflix streamer, I do care about picture quality. You can definitely tell the difference between SD and HD even when it streams.

Having said that, I'm excited to see what they can do with this, but I don't think I'll buy this on Blu-Ray. I don't think TNG has aged all that well, at least enough so I don't want to purchase it.

I'm a Netflix user as well and I can tell a huge difference between SD and HD content.

As far as repurchasing TNG, I'll just have to wait and see. It would have to be a massive upgrade in picture quality and effects to get me to shell out more money on the series.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This is AWESOME news.

 

[RAMA]

I'm highly skeptical about this speculative rumor, for two reasons:
1) Hugely expensive and labor-intensive, as Zaku detailed above;
2) Do Netflix streamers really care about picture quality? Wouldn't they just watch the SD original versions of TNG without complaint?

Doug

PS I hope I'm wrong, and I'll gladly come back here and eat raw Targ (and I'm a vegetarian!) if the rumor is true.

Its not a "done deal" but it does have a sense of truth about it.

Also, STNG made a huge amount of money for Paramount/CBS...all they have to do is advertise it with lots of new "stuff" to make it appear like a new purchase.

RAMA

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ All they need is to say "You won't have to see that same damn shot with the Excelsior-class ship every single episode!" and they're guaranteed victory.

 

[Dukhat]

^ All they need is to say "You won't have to see that same damn shot with the Excelsior-class ship every single episode!" and they're guaranteed victory.

Here, here! Okudas. here's your chance to start designing some of those conjectural class ships like the Rigel and Apollo, and insert them whenever you used to see an Excelsior.

Actually, if this rumor is true (and unfortunately, being the pessimist I am, I doubt it), then the episode they need to re-FX first is BoBW. Imagine seeing the aftermath of the Wolf 359 battle in HD with brand-new ships! They could actually have forty ships instead of the six or seven they originally had.

 

[BillJ]

^ All they need is to say "You won't have to see that same damn shot with the Excelsior-class ship every single episode!" and they're guaranteed victory.

Here, here! Okudas. here's your chance to start designing some of those conjectural class ships like the Rigel and Apollo, and insert them whenever you used to see an Excelsior.

Actually, if this rumor is true (and unfortunately, being the pessimist I am, I doubt it), then the episode they need to re-FX first is BoBW. Imagine seeing the aftermath of the Wolf 359 battle in HD with brand-new ships! They could actually have forty ships instead of the six or seven they originally had.

Isn't that where the TOS-R team got into trouble though? Trying to remake a classic (Balance of Terror) to relaunch the series without first working out the kinks.

Just start with Encounter at Farpoint and go from there.

 

[Admiral Bear]

Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.

 

[JJohnson]

I surely hope they'll hire someone else to do it. Okudas, no matter how much I respect their work, took way too much liberty with original Star Trek. Turning black-on-white clock display into yellow-on-black for no good reason (totally oblivious to the fact black on white is inherently easier to read and thus much more probable to be used in a professional environment)? Making stars tiny, almost invisible in standard definition? Recoloring all the pretty planets for the sake of "realism"? TNG doesn't need no such tampering, does it?

No, they did treat it with a lot of respect, and the creators from the original series who are still alive thought so too. Honestly your examples are so miniscule and ridiculous I laughed out loud when I saw it. If anything they should have done MORE work on the original show, not less...but I am satified the product struck a balance that satisfied most people.

RAMA

I'm a bit annoyed to this day that they didn't re-do all the planet skies to look like more than just dinky colored backdrops. Putting in clouds, the occasional bird or bird-like creature, a sun, a moon or three, that would've gone a long way to help the show look better, as well as taking all the upper displays on the bridge and actually animating them so they don't look like little more than portraits.

For TNG, I hope they redo all the FX, especially the planets, and create a few alternative ship flyby shots instead of that one off-angle, through-the-neck view that they over-used.

TNG-R can't come soon enough!

 

[JJohnson]

As a Netflix streamer, I do care about picture quality. You can definitely tell the difference between SD and HD even when it streams.

Having said that, I'm excited to see what they can do with this, but I don't think I'll buy this on Blu-Ray. I don't think TNG has aged all that well, at least enough so I don't want to purchase it.

I'm a Netflix user as well and I can tell a huge difference between SD and HD content.

As far as repurchasing TNG, I'll just have to wait and see. It would have to be a massive upgrade in picture quality and effects to get me to shell out more money on the series.

I would agree. I didn't buy it originally due to the exorbitant prices originally asked for the DVD sets (over $100 if I remember right) when other sets were either $40-50 at the time. Even on blu-ray, I would hope it's under $60 for the set.

For TNG-R, I would expect at least the same treatment as the original series got, and hopefully they can make the LCARS look more 'alive' rather than the half-way 'inserted over video' look it has at times.

 

[JJohnson]

^ All they need is to say "You won't have to see that same damn shot with the Excelsior-class ship every single episode!" and they're guaranteed victory.

Or the same two shots of the Enterprise D (through the neck, and planet orbit)...

 

[BillJ]

I'm a bit annoyed to this day that they didn't re-do all the planet skies to look like more than just dinky colored backdrops. Putting in clouds, the occasional bird or bird-like creature, a sun, a moon or three, that would've gone a long way to help the show look better, as well as taking all the upper displays on the bridge and actually animating them so they don't look like little more than portraits.

I'm pretty sure they did add some "sky effects" to several episodes. I know we see two moons in the sky in Bread and Circuses.

Replacing the upper bridge monitors would've broken the meager budget CBS gave them for the project. I imagine TNG will receive the same meager budget.

 

[AviTrek]

Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.

Your terminology is all wrong. "Pan & Scan" refers to cropping a movie that was originally widescreen and making it 4x3. TNG is natively 4x3. Creating a widescreen version of TNG would involve "Pan & Tilt" and cropping the top/bottom of the image.

And as people have mentioned multiple times in this thread already, TNG, DS9, and VOY all have the same issue. They were shot on film, but had all editing and post-production work done in video. The reason DS9 and VOY are less likely is because they would have a harder time generating enough revenue to justify the cost of re-editing every episode and redoing every fx shot.

 

[GNDN]

Well this would be a HUGE undertaking, considering both the number of episodes, amount of VFX per episode, and the necessity to go back to the camera negative and edit from scratch, if it were to be done right. Anything less would, IMO be a waste of time and resources.

As mentioned somewhere upthread, my biggest concern would also be that viewership numbers or sales would at some point not meet with CBS's expectations, and the project have it's plug pulled half-way through. I, for one, would definitely be interested in TNG and DS9 on blu-ray in HD.

Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

TOS did gangbusters on blu-ray without being in widescreen, so I don't see aspect ratio being a concern for TNG. To be clear, however, pan & scan refers to the reformatting of a widescreen image by cropping off the sides. As TNG was never intended for widescreen in the first place, no pan & scan is required.

That said, take a look at this Ex Astris Scientia article on converting TNG footage to a widescreen aspect ratio for ENT. While not perfect, I wouldn't be opposed to a judiciously cropped "pan & tilt" version (without the stretching that was applied) as an option as long as the original 4:3 was also preserved. I've felt the same way about TOS, as much as the new FX are fun to look at at times, it could also be fun to fill the widescreen frame, but only if the 4:3 frame is preserved an option (as the original TOS VFX are still an option on blu-ray)

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.

ALL Trek was filmed on 35mm film until the final season of ENT, so quality of the live action footage is not an issue. What is at issue is the anticipated sales of the subsequent series, balanced against the increased costs of new VFX production and editing the original negatives. It was the post-production process that, beginning with TNG, was mastered on video tape. So all the edits and VFX would have to be recreated to muster full 1080p HD quality.

I'm sure they wouldn't bother, but seeing as the model work was also shot originally on film, the option exists to re-composite certain VFX shots as well (as demonstrated by the Big-E's beauty pass in Generations.) Would love to see more shots of the 6' model rendered properly!!!

 

[StewMc]

Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.

DS9 and Voyager were shot on film and edited on tape exactly like TNG. As mentioned by someone in the comments over at TrekMovie, the "Making of DS9" book by the Reeves-Stevens goes into some detail on the subject:

Here’s the initial explanation:

“Every physical element of Deep Space Nine is shot on film, not videotape. However, that film is just a first step. As soon as it’s printed, it’s sent to Unitel Video, where it is transferred to D2 videotape. Then the film is put into storage and —provided no disasters occur while an episode is in postproduction—it never sees the light of day again.”

This paragraph points to this footnote:

“In the planning stages of The Next Generation, an important decision was made that still affects Deep Space Nine today. The choice Gene Roddenberry and the production team faced was whether to do the visual effects for the new series using film techniques or on video. Video effects were faster and less costly, but only worked on the television screen. Because of video’s low resolution at the time, there would be no final negative print from which film versions of The Next Generation could be edited together for theatrical release in other countries.

Ultimately, the decision was made to go to video, and Deep Space Nine continues that process today. Thus, although the resolution of the visual effects is much higher today than was possible in 1987, there are no final film prints of any episode of either series, and the episodes cannot be rescanned at the higher resolution necessary for high-definition television broadcast in the future.

Theoretically, it would be possible to return to the original raw film and redo all the visual effects at higher resolution, but such a step would be the equivalent of putting the show through the complete postproduction process again. It will be much less expensive to wait for enhancement technology to be developed so the final video versions of Deep Space Nine episodes can be reprocessed rather than being remade.”

(Thanks to Mark R. Largent over at TrekMovie from which this was shamelessly copied)

EDIT: Beaten to it! Oh well, the above quote is still quite interesting.

 

[Dukhat]

Isn't that where the TOS-R team got into trouble though? Trying to remake a classic (Balance of Terror) to relaunch the series without first working out the kinks.

I would like to think they "worked out the kinks" with TOS-R, so they'd know what they were doing by the time they got to TNG-R.

 

[Arpy]

I haven't bought a DVD in nearly a decade but I would buy every last episode of TNG if it were remastered well.

 

[Tomalak]

Theoretically, it would be possible to return to the original raw film and redo all the visual effects at higher resolution, but such a step would be the equivalent of putting the show through the complete postproduction process again. It will be much less expensive to wait for enhancement technology to be developed so the final video versions of Deep Space Nine episodes can be reprocessed rather than being remade.”

I think they'll be waiting a while. As good as upscaling might be, you're still inventing pixels that aren't there, and from already soft VT to start with. It won't look anything like as good as genuine high definition productions.

Obviously rescanning and re-editing the episodes from scratch might be prohibitively expensive, but if we just get Encounter At Farpoint scaled up with some CGI, I don't think I'll be too impressed.

 

[MacLeod]

Well if they where going to do it, I would do the likes of S3-4 first, as they where the stronger seasons.

 

[Tomalak]

I'd like season 1 done first, because it looks the worst. Maybe it won't seem as bad in high definition rather than murky NTSC?

 

[RAMA]

Remastered TNG is going to sell bucketloads on any format. I didn't get TOS-R; I never completely got into 60's Trek, but I would buy TNG Bluray in a heartbeat.

I'm hoping that if it does happen, we'll eventually get HD upscales of DS9 and Voyager, not complete remastering because they probably don't need it.

You know there are new editing technologies come out left and right, there may be ways to simplify this whole process through hardware or software, and even if not, I am sure STNG-R will make back its cost for CBS.