Star Trek: Axanar

Only Alec and Rob can speak to or for what appears in that pitch video when it come to the content, I'm afraid, since that was their work and I only saw it myself for the first time once it was available to public.

 

Don't want to get "Clintonian" about semantics, but I'm genuinely curious what the definition of "independent" is, in this context, to both sides of the argument.

It's such a generic and ambiguous word, it could mean anything, and anyone could refute it equally.

 

I just read back my original reply -- the one with the "Cooter's camcorder" comment -- and hope that it wasn't perceived as boasty, because that wasn't the intent. Reading it back now it could certainly be taken that way with little effort though.

In the end re: the shake at you mentioned, only Rob, the director, could definitively lay the issue to bed, but I'm not sure if he's a member of this forum, but would wager that he is in some capacity given his fandom. It's perhaps a bit harsh to call, or even imply, that Tobias or I are blowing smoke out of our butts on this topic. You asked a question. We gave you honest replies. If your opinion won't digest them as fact then that's one of the things that you'll just have to live with as a mystery then, I guess.

When I came to this group I stated that folks would get the truth and it was given. Now, if Rob joins this thread and says something like "Terry's wrong and I screwed up," or something like that, then I'll promptly eat my hat publicly. But, I cannot believe for a second that Rob didn't want that to be there and that Tobias would let something like that slide if it wasn't meant to be, given that they both worked on that scene for three weeks straight while they worked out their processes of collaboration as a new director-VFX supervisor team. =)

 

Three weeks for all of that? That is an impressive amount of work in that time, Tobias.
Without highjacking the thread, maybe by PM, I am interested in knowing how you decided to color and texture Vulcan As well as the sky color.

 

Thanks Terry, I have addressed this with Alec. It is important that all our Star Trek productions play well together. If I see things like that i'm going to call them out. As I would expect you guys to if the situation was reversed.

BTW, it was also the first line of the Indiegogo page as well, it has since been changed to: "Axanar is the first fully-professional, independent Star Trek film" That is also a shaky line as well for a few reasons I will not get into here.

 

When evaluating a product, comparisons with other supposedly similar products are inevitable.

 

In the case of Star Trek both the terms 'Fan Film' and 'Independent' are all but the same. Independent sounds more professional and is better for marketing. In either case when you are producing something without the involvement of the trademark holding studio, it is either independent or a fan Film (because your making a film for the fans). Independent can also describe other lower budget original concept film with out the backing of a major studio.

 

True.

Yet all someone did was state a preference for Axanar over Abrams' work and an insinuation was made that someone with such a viewpoint lacked perspective. The point was countered and subsequently the discussion took an off-ramp.

 

Good lord.

Someone compared Axanar to everything Abrams has done in his career. It may not have been intended to sound that way, but that's how it was read. One 20 minute fan film against not only those loathesome (LOATHESOME!!) Trek movies, but also Alias, Lost, Fringe, Super 8, Alcatraz, Undercovers, Felicity, Regarding Henry, Mission: Imossible III, Armageddon, Person of Interest, Believe, Revolution, Cloverfield, What About Brian, The Pallbearer, and Forever Young (among others) and oh yes, the new Star Wars.

Suggesting that a 20 minute fan film is better than the combined work of the career of one of the most prolific auteurs working in television and film today (whether you like his work or not) demonstrates a profound and obvious lack of perspective.

 

I thought it was obvious: The Council passes resolutions at the highest level and that resolution has to be ratified by the legislatures/ruling councils/monarchs/whatever of various nation states in order to become law. Sort of like the U.N., basically. The reason ratification is "just a formality" is because Vulcan has been ruled under a unified central government for years and there has never IN PRACTICE been a situation where one of its nation states decided to oppose a decision of the council (besides which, the resolution wouldn't be passed without all of their input anyway).

It basically IS too late to really change anyone's mind because the deal has been done and all that's left is for the various nations to sign the resolution into law, a resolution that they have technically already approved. But Vulcans embrace technicality, and Soval figures he still has time to turn things around.

 

The whole Abrams in this thread started when I had the audacity to write that I actually believe Axanar was better that anything trek I saw from Abrams.

Of course I now realize that was a horrendous thing to have said, how dare I have my own opinion.

The issue was dropped and forgotten about for over 24 hours til a pro abrams fan no doubt devastated at any criticism all be it in an off the cuff remark reignited it.

Then others who also had the sheer audacity to agree with me and actually dare to do it in the thread got involved and it was made into something serious.

Hopefully now we can all go back to discussing axanar and axanar alone, the movie I most want to see.

 

Ah, at last someone sees the problem, too.

The whole problem with this scene here could be easily fixed by simply having the council vote not have been cast yet, and instead simply have their intentions known.

 

By definition all fan films are indie, because they're made outside of the industrial studio system. That said, some (I haven't decided if I'm one of them yet) then choose to differentiate based on perceived quality or resources available for production on what might be considered "fan film" or "independent film."

In the end it really doesn't matter to me either way, because it's the same amount of work to make it no matter what label is taped on. =)

 

You're assuming that's a problem, though. I mean, it obviously is for SOVAL, which is why he's so stressed out about this. But the subtext of the scene is "They already voted, so we're fucked."

So how is Soval going to unfuck Vulcan and what drastic and unprecedented craziness is going to ensue that gives him the opportunity to do so? We'll just have to wait and see.

 

AFAIK, in common usage "Independent films" are produced with the intention of marketing/selling them to consumers. If not for profit, at least to compensate the production costs and the time/effort of the actors and crew. Fan films, by contrast, are vanity projects and aren't intended to make anything back.

If I understand the situation, technically you couldn't actually SELL copies of Axanar without getting sued into oblivion by an unholy alliance of CBS, Paramount, Bad Robot, Steve Inhat's ghost and Harlan Ellison's mother in law. So to the extent those labels are not totally arbitrary anyway (and they mostly are) it would still be considered a "fan film" of the "Nya nya, we did it just for fun so you can't sue me!" variety.

 

I would have thought that any reference to Abrams in terms of this thread would be to his Trek work would be obvious context, but I guess it really is necessary to parse everything out these days.

Moving on:

I like Sonya Alexander's little smirk when she relates her Klingon nickname. She's proud of earning it.

The best way to look at it would be like a US Constitutional amendment. Passed by the central government, it now has to be ratified by the states/people. An act which apparently Soval sees as a "done deal" at that point in time.

Sorry, Dennis, but the evidence of history once again is not with you. Countless interviews and documents and audio commentaries on Trek videos all talk about GR's desire to produce a show that was literate as well as "action-y". Solo, Justman, Coon, Fontana, even Gerrald have talked about this in their interviews, etc.

In a battle of all those worthies vs you, I go with the people who were there and helped GR do it.

One last point:

I am sick of a few people continuing to backhand complement Axanar by emphasizing "fan film", as though any production not coming out of Big Hollywood must forever be consigned to the "little kid's table". Axanar is proving otherwise.

 

All I've been trying to say is that, unless ratification doesn't operate the way it does in the real world, and given that the vote has already been cast, getting the council to change their mind can't be enough to stop Vulcan's secession. Yet that's Soval's goal as laid out in the scene. To prevent Vulcan's secession, he must also stop the ratification process.

Again, if the story doesn't involve Soval pleading to multiple independent sovereigns not to ratify the council's vote because the council will vote again to change its mind, then the far simpler change is to simply have the final vote not yet taken in the council.

You know what, I'm just going to go with what Maurice said, because that's really simpler: Gee, it sure was heavy on the political technobabble.

 

Axanar is fan art. Grand in scope and spectacular in execution, but still, simply, a work of art. Compare and contrast with the Star Trek franchise in general, which an entertainment commodity that happens to INCLUDE artwork from many different contributors as part of its overall presentation.

You can either be the Big Kid at the Kid's Table or the upstart young cousin at the grownup's table. Before you make your choice, consider that the kids' table is WAY more fun and none of us have copyright lawyers on speed dial.

 

Exactly right. And he knows this is just about impossible to do, just like he knows that if he DOESN'T find a way to do it, the Federation is going to fall apart.

It's a classic no-win scenario.

That or Vulcan actually DOES secede and Starfleet shows up to save them from a Klingon invasion anyway, an act of sacrifice and loyalty that leads to the Council repealing the resolution and returning to the Federation.

Or some other similar crisis that results in an extraordinary reversal of fortunes. Whatever happens, it's probably either during or immediately after the ratification process and certainly disruptive enough to throw the entire legislative process into complete chaos. In either case, the likely culprit is "OMG!!! Klingons!!!!"

 

I do.