Who Watches the Watchers?

TrekToday · April 4 2008, 11:18 PM

Plot Summary: The Enterprise receives a distress call from a group of Federation scientists observing the developing Mintakan civilization from an outpost hidden by holograms. An explosion injures everyone on the team and makes the observation window visible to the valley below. While LaForge struggles to repair the power systems and Crusher tends to the injured, a father and daughter spot the window and climb up to observe. Shocked by the sight of one of the injured anthropologists being beamed away, the man, Liko, slips and is gravely injured. Because she blames Starfleet's error for Liko's accident, Crusher has him beamed to the ship and saves his life, but she is unable to modify his memories. After Liko hears Picard telling expedition leader Barron that they will find his missing assistant, Palmer, Liko returns to the Mintakans and tells them about the godlike Caretaker who brought him back from the dead. Riker and Troi beam down in search of Palmer and learn that the Mintakans have begun to worship "the Picard." When the Mintakans find Palmer, Troi diverts them in a search for other Caretakers so that Riker can beam the injured man up to the ship. Once Riker and Palmer have vanished, Liko fears that the Picard will punish his people for allowing them to escape and suggests executing Troi in penance. Hoping to persuade the Mintakans that he is not a god, Picard has the leader Nuria beamed aboard the Enterprise and shows her that he cannot save the most injured member of the scientific team. Nuria returns with Picard to the planet, but they are unable to persuade Liko that Picard is not a god until Picard insists on taking the arrow intended to sacrifice Troi. When Liko sees that Picard bleeds, he apologizes for his error and Troi is freed. After Crusher treats Picard's wound, he returns to the planet to tell the Mintakans that they must progress on their own toward the technological abilities they have witnessed by the Starfleet officers.

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Jack Bauer · April 5 2008, 12:09 AM

I always found this episode to be a big yawner. It's doesn't do much for me at all.

Sisko_is_my_captain · April 5 2008, 12:27 AM

"pressuring them to accept his own apparent agnosticism might be just as damaging as insisting that they should not revert to a theology of fear. Many of the greatest atrocities on our own planet were committed not in the name of faith, but in the name of pure science."

Excellent point. I always thought that how Picard and the crew dealt with the Mintakans' beliefs shed an interesting light on their own.

DeafPoet · April 5 2008, 12:29 AM

One of my very favourite episodes and MEG gets it right for once. Good times all around. It's definitely one of the few sensible applications of the Prime Directive in Trek.

RandyS · April 5 2008, 01:46 AM

Jack Bauer wrote:

I always found this episode to be a big yawner. It's doesn't do much for me at all.

Well, I wouldn't go qiute as far as you did, but I agree, it wasn't one of my favorites either.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 5 2008, 03:03 AM

Jack Bauer wrote:

I always found this episode to be a big yawner. It's doesn't do much for me at all.

Me neither. I found it a bit 'skewed' and (ironically) preachy.

Terra Pryme · April 5 2008, 05:36 AM

RandyS wrote:

Jack Bauer wrote:

I always found this episode to be a big yawner. It's doesn't do much for me at all.

Well, I wouldn't go qiute as far as you did, but I agree, it wasn't one of my favorites either.

I did like this episode when it first aired, but over time it starts to lose its luster. First, there were the similarities to TOS's "The Paradise Syndrome", from Native American-type alien races revering the Enterprise captains as gods ("Kirok" and "The Picard"), to their seeing a miracle and expecting more, and eventually the revelation the captains aren't gods when they're seen bleeding from injuries. With the multi airing of "WWTW" though, it more looks like the crew is treating the natives so simple-mindedly. First, there's the scene Troi greets them ("I...am Troi. This...is Riker"). It's rather strange they'd use their real names. After all, wouldn't they be as strange to the natives as "The Picard"? Troi then tries to dismiss Liko's encounter as some sort of dream, but he quickly shoots her down and the natives more support him than her. Having Nuria beamed onboard the Enterprise was questionable at best. It's fortunate all she did was kneel down instead of going into massive shock from seeing what's really a whole new world to her. This eventually culminates to the scene where Picard is shot with the arrow. Did anyone else think the stunt scene was lame? The stuntman actually jolts backward like he's being shot with a whaling harpoon! There's no way an arrow would direct that much force no matter how fast it's shot. Like I said, this episode may have been above average from its first airing, but after repated showings, it's really under average as a result from such ridiculous factors mentioned above.

JNG · April 5 2008, 11:23 PM

I always found it tough to consider this kind of episode good science fiction, and by "this kind of episode" I mean adventures in which Our Heroes pass for aliens by putting on some makeup.

The conceit of the Universal Translator is pretty thin but necessary, and Trek already depends on it for a lot. I can accept that it works when both parties are wearing interfacing devices or have implants in their ears or something, and if computers have communicated beforehand in mathematical code and sent one another full indices of languages, it becomes at least believable enough to continue enjoying the show.

But as hard as I rack my brain, I am unable to think of a way in which the Universal Translator could possibly enable Troi to pass as an alien because she has some makeup on, as she also does in "Face of the Enemy" and as Picard and Data do in "Unification" and as Riker does in the "First Contact" episode, and so forth. It is as if the writers take the conceit of everyone appearing to speak English for our benefit and pretend, for that week, that it is some kind of reality sensible enough to help the plotting along. It isn't, and writing that sort of occurrence is not really science fiction, any more than if Picard walked into his ready room and opened a window (sure, we could say there is some emergency mode where the structural integrity field quickly bridges the gap to limit decompression and the life support systems work overtime to immediately equalize the pressure and reheat the room and everything and it is so effective that it is invisible and silent and no one ever mentions it, but WHY are you making me jump through these hoops? Should stories rely on this?).

Lilith · April 6 2008, 11:59 AM

You know, in universe I share your skepticism, but com'on, it's pretty hard making a sci-fi tv series in which each new alien you meet speaks a different language. Seriously, we'd all be lost as to what's going on and half of each episode would have to be spend on figuring out the language of the week. I have little issue with everyone seemingly speaking English and it being explained by the UT.

It doesn't deterr from the sci fi aspect either. Sci fi isn't about languages or rubber on faces (though it would've been nice to see a little more creativity in the latter), it's about the stories themselves.

I quite liked Who Watches the Watchers?, but I think they could've made it more interesting by giving Troi a more active role and more dramatic if they'd had Troi be shot and the Mintakens expecting Picard to heal her. Most of all, this is one of those episodes that are perfect to reference to later in the show. It would've been nice to see any of the senior staff tease "The Picard" about this later on.

Pioneer · April 9 2008, 08:01 AM

Sisko_is_my_captain wrote:

"Many of the greatest atrocities on our own planet were committed not in the name of faith, but in the name of pure science."

In the name of "pure science"? Like what, pray tell?

T.Geiger · April 10 2008, 04:24 AM

In the name of "pure science"? Like what, pray tell?

Well, there was that doctor in Germany that created a man sown together from other corpses. What was his name? Victor.. or Henry maybe? Can't remember.

I really liked this episode the first couple of times I saw it because I didn't clue into the anti-religion message until later. Now I cannot watch it without seeing it from stem to stern. (Yeah, I know.. I'm oblivious. I missed the 'gay' message in The Outcast also.)

One thing that always bothered me about how humans were portrayed as being godless by the 24th century (there were a few references in TOS) is that its completely implausible. Last I saw the number was around 90% of the population believing in some sort of spirituality, and no great avalanche towards atheism had begun or even been indicated. So there's not one Christian or Hindu officer in all of Starfleet? Really? I think this episode could have been so much more interesting if there was even just one dissenter to counter-balance Picard.

I think that may be one of the reasons why I really liked DS9 so much. The Bajorans were not only religious, they were diehard ultra-religious. What does Kira do when they're in a bad situation and her commander is bleeding out on the ground? She prays over him. I'm a fairly religious man myself, but I'm not sure I'd have the stones to pray over my atheist CO.

Lilith · April 10 2008, 12:08 PM

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there

To use a popular reason

I've never found WWTW? vindictive of religion or atheism either way. It merely states that in that particular case, where the Mintakens turn religious because of Starfleet's interference, shouldn't be allowed to continue. Not even because it's religion, but because of what caused the religion to develop.

Also, one messed up scientist does not "many of the greatest atrocities on our planet" make. Frankly, the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this statement because. Sure there have been some horrible events, but very, VERY few of them in the name of pure science

Pioneer · April 10 2008, 12:23 PM

"Well, there was that doctor in Germany that created a man sown together from other corpses. What was his name? Victor.. or Henry maybe? Can't remember. "

What the Nazi doctors did wasn't science. They were atrocities. True science respects human life.

------------------------------------------------------

Man: [Screams]
Dr. Frankenstein: Oh, yes. While you were unconscious I took the liberty of removing your legs.

The Laughing Vulcan · April 10 2008, 05:03 PM

T.Geiger wrote:

So there's not one Christian or Hindu officer in all of Starfleet?

The episode Data's Day takes place on Diwali. He says so in his log entry. Mind you in 400 years they may be celebrating the Hindu festival of lights without knowing what it means, just like Christmas nowadays.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 10 2008, 06:36 PM

T.Geiger wrote:

So there's not one Christian or Hindu officer in all of Starfleet? Really?

I'm sure there are. But it would be difficult to work that into an episode.

T.Geiger · April 11 2008, 04:00 AM

The episode Data's Day takes place on Diwali.

Hm, I had either not noticed, or forgotten that. A minor throwaway line and no actual celebration is shown. And you are correct in that there is no indication that there was any religious significance to the event.

What the Nazi doctors did wasn't science. They were atrocities. True science respects human life.

WHOOOSH!!

Never seen (or read) Frankenstein, I take it?

I'm sure there are. But it would be difficult to work that into an episode.

I'm sure that's a joke.

'Cause they've already done it, just not with humans (and despite Leonard's protestations to the opposite, Starfleet is still a homo-sapiens only club). Consider how frequently Kira was interrupted while praying at her alter over the course of DS9. Or the near infinite number of times some inane 'funny' scene was worked into an episode that served no purpose other than to make the audience roll their eyes. There was opportunity and time both.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 11 2008, 06:20 AM

T.Geiger wrote:

'Cause they've already done it, just not with humans

I *meant* with humans. And so did the poster I was replying to, who wondered whether there was a Christian or Hindu officer in all of Starfleet.

There was a Voyager episode where Tom is afraid that B'Elanna's interest in Klingon practices will endanger her, and he says something about "You want to explore your beliefs? Fine, then go to church!" Also, Joseph Sisko once quoted the Bible on DS9 (and I don't mean the Prophet-posing-as-Sisko in 'Far Beyond the Stars').

Of course, anyone who's read the SCE stories knows that there is at least one Jewish Starfleet captain.

Mr. Laser Beam · April 11 2008, 06:21 AM

[QUOTE=Babaganoosh;1522661]

T.Geiger wrote:

'Cause they've already done it, just not with humans

I *meant* with humans. And so did the poster I was replying to, who wondered whether there was a Christian or Hindu officer in all of Starfleet.

There was a Voyager episode where Tom is afraid that B'Elanna's interest in Klingon practices will endanger her, and he says something about "You want to explore your beliefs? Fine, then go to church!" Also, Joseph Sisko once quoted the Bible on DS9 (and I don't mean the preacher who looked like Joseph in 'Far Beyond the Stars').

Of course, anyone who's read the SCE stories knows that there is at least one Jewish Starfleet captain.

T.Geiger · April 11 2008, 11:07 PM

And so did the poster I was replying to

I am that poster, sir.

Neither Sisko nor Paris have shown any real religious leanings. But at least Sisko did show he was a hell of a lot more tolerant of spiritual mumbo jumbo than Picard.

Anyone who's read the SCE stories knows that there is at least one Jewish Starfleet captain.

Hm. One of these days I should really start picking up some of the novels. DS9 Relaunch first though.